250x stall and wont start when hot
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Sat Sep 01, 2018 7:26 pm

    here is my problem ,, the bike start first spin of the starter with choke on when cold (awsome) idle good, reckluse work good, no problem at all ... after 10-20 minute riding (engine warm/hot) if i slow down or try to stop in any gear even with clutch in, engine will stop ,( i have a reckluse so i should not have to hold clutch ) then what a pain to get it back going ,,in neutral . even playing with the hot start or not, i almost kill the battery today then i have to kick for 5-10 time to get it going ... until next stop ... i have to rev the engine to make sure it does not stall
    here is what i did so far
    empty fuel get new one in
    new battery today ...
    check valve clearance and they were good ..
    check the gas cap vent by blowing air in so does not seem to be block
    now before i remove carb and clean it witch seem to be a major job to remove is there anything i can do or adjust ?
    thanks
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by JimDirt » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:01 am

    Welcome to the site !! \:D/

    How does the compression feel ??

    Does it kick over easily ?? , or is there a good bit of resistance when on the compression stroke ?? ...low compression could be worn rings if valves are 100% in spec

    Are you noticing any variance in idling ?? , in other words , does it idle high one time , then idle extremely low and/or die the next ?? ... if so it could be the Needle Jet is worn causing erratic idle to the extreme it will die

    Have you looked at the spark plug to see its color ?? , was it tan or white or black ?? ...indicating a fuel enrichment or starvation issue

    When it does die and your in gear is it only at a idle ?? , or when your moving it will just die and coast to a stop ?? ... this leads me to my main thought that its the clutch causing your symptoms

    I am thinking it is possibly clutch related if its only doing it at low or no speed , if the clutch engages and your not moving or barely moving , it could/would stall it out of the blue , check your basket for grooves , with the clutch cover off and the bike lying on its side so oil does not flow out , actuate the clutch by hand and watch to see of it looks to be catching or binding , check the basket for movement , grab it and try to wobble it back and forth , if it moves it could be binding and engaging , if its the ball bearing type clutch , then its possible the grooves are worn or the balls , you may need to inspect them , Rekluse should have a spec sheet on your specific clutch , you need to check it and make sure all areas are within spec

    most everything your describing , with the low speed stalling and stopped stalling , sounds like a clutch issue to me ..... just because its a "Auto Clutch" does not mean its working correctly ...

    Hope that helps ...... ;)
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:18 pm

    thank for info i also think it has something to do with clutch but not sure what too look for as sometime i would go down hill and press clutch to let it go down on its own and it would dies!!!
    thanks
    updated ,,after further investigation ,,, i play with my idle/air screw and i think i find something wrong as it has to be open about 5 to 6 turn to run ,, i though between 1 and 3 was ok ??? what kind of jet do i need ?? bigger or smaller ? and do i have to put the carb out to replaced ? i have seen video where they go from the top of carb to removed needle and adjusted the clip will that do ?? as the 2 other jet seem to be in the bowl ? witch one i need to play with ?
    thanks
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts: 1962
    Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by Aussiecrf230 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:44 pm

    Does it stall with the bike in neutral?
    Is the hot start fully shut off?
    Did the bike run ok before?
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:19 pm

    Does it stall with the bike in neutral?
    Is the hot start fully shut off?
    Did the bike run ok before?
    no it wont stall if in neutral at leas i never notice but i do have to restart in neutral as it wont start even if i press the clutch
    as far as i know the hot start is fully off but i will double check in the morning
    yes bike was running good 2 year ago ,,then i install a reckluse last spring, run good all summer its all started in the fall last year and this year is worrse so i though it was the valve check them out and they were good
    thank
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by JimDirt » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:53 pm

    I would guess by your explanation that possible causes are the jets are clogged , you should not need to change size if it was running fine before , if you are positive the valves are in spec , then pull the jets and replace the Pilot Jet , its the thin long jet , the easiest way to remove it without removing the carb (this will sound complex but read thru it a few times , and once you do it , it will take no more than 2-4 minutes to do from start to finish) , so what you want to do is to loosen the front and rear carb clamps (the closest to the carb in the front and the one for the airbox to carb in the rear) , once loose (you just need to loosen them , not remove) then you can twist the carb so the bottom is closer to the left side , shut off the gas at the petcock first , IF there is a drain screw (a small flat screwdriver bolt at the rear bottom on the left side of the bowl , turn it counter clockwise about 1-2 turns , you should see gas drain from the tubes down below the shock , if there is not one then just remove the bottom plug/nut i am describing next) , you will see a nut on the bottom of the bowl once you turn it sideways , it is 17mm , remove that , but put a rag under the carb to catch the gas that comes out , and look up in the carb thru the hole , you will see a hex shaped brass nut , in the center of the hole , that is the Main Jet , look forward of that still centered in the bowl and you will see a small screw slot that is also brass , that is the pilot , it is not the brass one off to the side thru the hole , it is directly in front of the main jet

    find a thin narrow flat blade screwdriver that fits snugly in the slot , turn the jet counterclockwise to remove it , look at the jet and it will have a number stamped in it somewhere on the side , it will be like 40 or something , your Main Jet will be around 130 , take the pilot jet to your local bike shop or dealer and get a exact replacement for a Keihin FCR , when you get the new one take your screwdriver and make sure it is the same width as the jet so the blade of the screwdriver is as wide but not wider than the jet slot and fits tightly but all the way in the slot , take a engine vacuum hose (if you need to find one , look in your car engine compartment and find a vacuum hose (about as big around as a Bic ball point pen) find one that has some movement so you can cut some off and it will still attach back where it was without being taught , cut 2 inches off near the fitting its attached to , then replace the remaining hose back where it connected on your engine , now take that 2 inch hose and slide it over the screwdriver blade till its on the round part of the stem it should fit snugly but still be able to slide up/down , now take your jet and set it in the slot , then slide the vacuum hose up and slightly over the jet so it holds it in place , then insert the screwdriver in the hole in the bowl and go in till the jet gets in its position, then start tightening it , as you tighten the vacuum hose will slide back , once the jet is securely snug , then replace the 17mm nut in the bottom of the bowl , snug it down but do not over tighten or it will strip or break , just snug it so it is secure but not much past bottoming out , , now would be a good time to adjust your fuel screw (adjustment is below) , then tilt the carb back to level (there will be a notch in the intake boot that a tab on the carb will go between) then tighten the front and rear clamps , and turn on your gas , wait for the bowl to fill for about 30 seconds , then start the bike and see if it runs better , your screw should be about 2-1/4 turns out
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts: 1962
    Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by Aussiecrf230 » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:02 pm

    If the jets come out covered in gummy rubbish you might have to pull the bowl off to clean it out and make sure float valve is clear. Fingers crossed for you.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • Leardriver
    Posts: 462
    Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 10:33 am

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by Leardriver » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:38 am

    If the bike runs fine at first, jetting or clogs wouldn't be my first idea. You have checked the gas cap vent, and that is what it sounded like.
    I would like to see you immediately loosen the carb drain screw the next time that it stalls, and make sure that a good bit of fuel flows out.
    It sounds like a fuel flow insufficiency, like a plugged needle and seat in the carb. Sorta like you are using up what is in the bowl, and it can't refill fast enough. You could change the float level of the carb to a fuller level, but that is opening another can of worms.
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:16 pm

    update ...yesterday i blow the gas cover tube witch did not seem plug ,then i adjust the reckluse clutch .then i play again with the air screw ,,so today i went for a 3 hr ride ,,! only stall 1 at the end of the ride,,, also i was revving pretty high all day as it seem it was a solution to my stalling ... tonight i removed both jet 45 and 130 .. the 45 seem to be ok the 130 looking with with magnified glasses i could see a line going across the tiny hole .. not sure if its enough to cause my problem but tomorrow i am going to order 2 new one ... now because i am like 5-6 turn out on the air screw should i change size of jetting ?? also i only stall when i stop or go slow like in thigh single track never during riding as i am giving gas lol
    thanks
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by JimDirt » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:41 pm

    The fuel screw should never be more than 3 turns out , so something is still blocked , if the current jetting was in it when it ran before at the same elevation , then it should run fine with it now , so unless you dramatically changed elevations , there should be no need to rejet provided that the bike ran fine before at the same elevation with the current jetting .... more info on elevation and weather the bike ran fine before at the elevation it is currently being ridden at

    The more details you give , the better someone can assist with figuring out what is wrong .....

    Also remember it is a FUEL screw not a Air screw , Out is Richening the mixture , not adding more air , so when someone says "richen" the mixture , they want the screw out more , but again , anything past 3 turns means there is a internal blockage and I would personally replace BOTH jets , not just the main , this way your remove them as possible causes to the condition , I am surprised that the fuel screw did not fall out at 5 turns out , so either the float level is way too low , or the Pilot Jet is clogged or a internal blockage in the carb
    Last edited by JimDirt on Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:31 pm

    The fuel screw should never be more than 3 turns out , so something is still blocked , if the current jetting was in it when it ran before at the same elevation , then it should run fine with it now , so unless you dramatically changed elevations , there should be no need to rejet provided that the bike ran fine before at the same elevation with the current jetting .... more info on elevation and weather the bike ran fine before at the elevation it is currently being ridden at

    The more details you give , the better someone can assist with figuring out what is wrong .....
    i start playing with the screw last fall when it start giving me trouble (giving more rev to compensate the stall ) ,,,never used the bike all summer as it was way too hot for me to ride (32 Celsius + all summer) so in the pass weeks went i restart riding, I was still having trouble after changing the fuel, checking valve, I actually count the turn and i was surprise to see 5 + turn ..i play between 500 ft and goes up to 1200 ft and it was the first time i ever remove the jet ( and they were in very tight solid )
    thanks
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by JimDirt » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:45 pm

    The fuel screw should never be more than 3 turns out , so something is still blocked , if the current jetting was in it when it ran before at the same elevation , then it should run fine with it now , so unless you dramatically changed elevations , there should be no need to rejet provided that the bike ran fine before at the same elevation with the current jetting .... more info on elevation and weather the bike ran fine before at the elevation it is currently being ridden at

    The more details you give , the better someone can assist with figuring out what is wrong .....
    i start playing with the screw last fall when it start giving me trouble (giving more rev to compensate the stall ) ,,,never used the bike all summer as it was way too hot for me to ride (32 Celsius + all summer) so in the pass weeks went i restart riding, I was still having trouble after changing the fuel, checking valve, I actually count the turn and i was surprise to see 5 + turn ..i play between 500 ft and goes up to 1200 ft and it was the first time i ever remove the jet ( and they were in very tight solid )
    thanks
    at that elevation , the jets size should be what is in it (40/130) , as jets are determined by elevation , and to some degree , temperature
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:03 pm

    ho ley crap who design this bike ...so pain to removed the carb ... tomorrow its going into the ultrasonic cleaner and installing 2 new jet 45 and 130 ( i have a fmr pipe ) ,,,, anything else i should check/replaced on that carb while its out ??? i am also rechecking the the valve ,,last time they were .005 for intake and .011 for exaulst so i hope they are again
    thanks
  • User avatar
    JimDirt
    Posts: 4406
    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by JimDirt » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:36 pm

    Check the Hot Start Plunger , make sure its working freely , look at the brass plunger on it and see if there is any green crap , if so , then clean it off with steel wool or a green scotch brite pad , also check the Float Level , when you get it back together , and hook up the gas line , turn on the fuel valve , and let the gas run for about 30 seconds or so , , do not put the subframe down at this time , then , twist the throttle and look in the back of the carb at the same time , there is a brass pin sticking up in the venturi , its the squirter , watch how it squirts , it should just barely miss the slide when you twist the throttle , it should not hit it , if it does hit , then you need to adjust the screw on the throttle linkage that is actually at the round linkage itself where the cables are connected to , under the black plastic cover that covers the cables , if it just barely missed it then your AP timing is correct , and you can finish assembly ....
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • lestruites
    Posts: 8
    Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 12:48 pm

    Re: 250x stall and wont start when hot

    by lestruites » Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:38 am

    k I recheck I have 5 and 6 and the other is 10 and 11 that should be by spec
    thank

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests