Engine noise/ticking
  • OnThaLoose
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    Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:15 pm

    Engine noise/ticking

    by OnThaLoose » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:21 pm

    Hi,

    I have a 2009 CRF250x and just recently noticed a clicking/ticking noise come and go that appears to be coming from the top end. Any advice on what this may be would be extremely helpful!

    I’ve made a video of the noise if it makes it easier, it noticeably stops at about 40 seconds in and starts again at about 51 seconds in the video.

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    JimDirt
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by JimDirt » Sun Apr 29, 2018 9:15 am

    Welcome to the site !! \:D/

    It sounds like either the timing chain is loose , or the Timing Chain Tensioner is going bad and causing the timing chain to intermittently loosen up and slap ....either way , I am guessing it's time for a new Timing Chain and possibly Tensioner .....
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • OnThaLoose
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    Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:15 pm

    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by OnThaLoose » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:23 am

    Thanks!

    But isn’t the tensioner on these bikes automatic? How do I go about adjusting it, or do I have to replace it?
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by JimDirt » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:21 pm

    It is Automatic ,, which means it "self adjusts" , so if its ticking then quiet , that is a good indication it is bad or going bad , but they sometimes break inside and won't keep the tension correctly and eventually self destruct , you can remove it and check it to see if its bad , you will possibly find it physically broken , but there is no real way of "testing" it , but if your timing chain has slack in it (with the Tensioner still in the engine) then it is bad for sure and i would replace it (and the chain) ASAP , if the chain or the Tensioner cuts loose , it will be a real expensive endeavor , possibly taking out the head , piston , and crank , the Chain is about $60 or so , and the Tensioner is around $45 or so (OEM) , under $100 and your good for a long while

    If you are mechanically inclined its a fairly easy job with the exception of needing a special Flywheel Puller for your bike , so you can get at the chain from the lower sprocket

    If you do not have a Factory Honda Service Manual , or a Owners Manual , it would be a worthwhile investment ($40-$60) , if you run into any issues , there are several of us that can walk you thru removing and replacing them , and tell you what you need to replace/remove to do the job , you won't have to remove the head or anything major , its just a little tedious , but fairly straight forward , if you can adjust your valves , you can replace your timing chain and tensioner ....
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • OnThaLoose
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:15 pm

    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by OnThaLoose » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:33 pm

    Alright, thank you very much. I bought the bike use a year and a half ago and haven’t checked the valve clearance since owning it, and I’ve no idea if the previous owner ever did though I know he installed a 250r Head, but I was planning to check the valves before the noise began, so it seems like a good time to check the valves, timing chain, and tensioner all at once.

    I’ve read up how to check the valves though I’ve never done it, so if I have any questions or run into issues, I’ll definately let you guys know.

    Also, if the tensioner is bad, is it best to buy an oem one or buy a manual tensioner?
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by JimDirt » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:36 am

    Some people prefer the Manual one , i personally use OEM (stock) , the difference being that as the chain stretches (they all do) the manual one needs to be "manually" adjusted periodically , where as the OEM one will self adjust (to a point) , i have the original one in my 06 450X (along with Piston , clutch , etc, all i have replaced is the Intakes with Stainless and installed a HotCams Stage 1) and i have a OEM replacement in my 02 450R since 08 , and it is track ridden almost every weekend

    Basically , Tensioners are just like Timing Chains , and Clutches , and Drive Chains , and Valves , Pistons ,Tires , etc , they are considered "wear parts" and all will periodically need replacement at some time or another , or frequently , as use and abuse have a factor on when/if parts wear or fail prematurely , or last longer than "recommended" maintenance intervals , just because the manual "recommends" you should replace your piston every 20 hours , does not mean you have to , its a "recommendation" that is based off racing intervals , and is not set in stone for every situation or practical purposes , though some people replace parts exactly as the manual says , weather they are showing signs of wear or failure , or still look and work like new , others don't and do not suffer from catastrophic failures

    If you have any issues or more questions , just ask , asking beforehand , is much cheaper and less stressful than asking after you screwed something up by guessing or assuming , and get yourself a Manual (I prefer the Factory Honda Service Manual) **just look for your bike on the drop down menu** https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id/3226 , it is full of info to do pretty much everything on the bike and has good reference pictures , and if you get stuck or confused , then you have this forum to ask as well , plenty of good people here to help ;)
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • OnThaLoose
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by OnThaLoose » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 am

    Thank you for the help Jim. Sorry its been a while and I haven't replied, I put the bike up for a while (i didn't want to drive it making the noise and didn't have time to fix it yet) but I intend on taking it apart and checking the cam chain and tensioner this weekend. I would like to check them before ordering parts and possibly wind up not needing them.

    Two things: first, I do own an owners manual but haven't read the whole thing, so i'll look into that this weekend as well. And secondly, I've never re-shimmed valves before either, as you suggested in an earlier post that is I was able to do that I should be able to change the cam chain. So do you think this job is out of my league?

    One last question, if the tensioner itself is bad, do I need to buy the "special tool" to replace it? Im hearing conflicting answers on this.. and don't want to spend $100 on a tool I may not need.. and also, is the tensioner I need "lifter assy., tensioner" "Part# 14520-KRN-671" on the OEM parts list?
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by JimDirt » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:09 pm

    No you won't need a special tool to replace the tensioner , BUT , to replace the timing chain , you would need a Flywheel Puller (made for your bike) , the only thing that is a serious issue , is when removing the flywheel with the puller , that the crank has a brass piece on the end that can't be damaged , so you need to be very careful with the puller , it is a multi part puller and there is a small cap/nut that goes over the end of the crank to protect the brass piece , it must be installed so it is not tight against the brass , as the inner part of the puller will be pushing on it and you do not want it squishing the brass collar , as this is basically part of the oiling system so if it gets damaged the engine will not oil properly , but it is not mentioned in the Owners Manual , only the Factory Honda Service Manual , adjusting the valves IS mentioned , but removing the flywheel is not , but as long as you get the correct puller , and pay attention to how you use it , you should be fine , and it is the only "special" tool you should need to do the chain and valve adjustment/inspection , the Tensioner is removed by the 2 bolts on each side , that's it nothing special for tools to remove it or install it , and if you get stuck on something , there is usually someone here that can help walk you thru it , depending on the day (I am usually at the MX track or in the woods or desert on the weekends riding , but am usually around most evenings , I rode today , and will tomorrow and Sunday , so only evenings this weekend , during the week , I am in and out during the day)

    And yes that is the correct part number

    This is the Flywheel Puller (in the link below) , note the nut i was talking about ... The Factory Service Manual is on backorder here , so check with your local Honda dealer and see if they can order one , they are around $55-$65 depending on where you get them
    https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id/624
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Back2-2
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by Back2-2 » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:24 pm

    Just to add to what Jim has stated -
    You do have to relieve the tension on the cam chain by backing off the tension on the adjuster before removing it. There is a small and I mean small tool you can make to lock the tensioner. It can be fabricated easily from a small piece of aluminum and the service manual gives you the measurements to make the tool. Follow what the service manual describes and you will be good to go.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • OnThaLoose
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:15 pm

    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by OnThaLoose » Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:38 pm

    Thanks guys!

    So I’m about 90% sure my problem is the tensioner. When I manually tighten it as much as I can, the engine will sound normal for about 60 seconds, then the noise comes back. Checking again, the tensioner has backed out some, and I can tighten it again.

    Luckily I ordered a new tensioner, cam chain, and feeler gauges yesterday, so when the tensioner comes in tomorrow I’ll be able to test the new one.

    Unfortunately, I stripped the two bolts holding the stock tensioner in, Honda put those in suppppper tight.

    Well, guess we’ll find out tomorrow!! I’ll be sure to come back by and let you guys know what I found, thanks again fellas.

    Ben Provost
    2009 CRF250X
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by JimDirt » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:57 pm

    No problem , keep us posted as to what you find ..... ;) 8-[
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Back2-2
    Posts: 1148
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by Back2-2 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:15 pm

    When you say that you tightened the tensioner - " I manually tighten it as much as I can" - You cannot tighten it. You can take the spring pressure off the adjuster / actuator which pushes on the chain to allow the tension but you can not add spring pressure to the chain. Are you sure that you are not taking the tension of and hence allowing the chain to run free with no tension on it ? Flapping in the breeze as they would say ?
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • OnThaLoose
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:15 pm

    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by OnThaLoose » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:19 pm

    When you say that you tightened the tensioner - " I manually tighten it as much as I can" - You cannot tighten it. You can take the spring pressure off the adjuster / actuator which pushes on the chain to allow the tension but you can not add spring pressure to the chain. Are you sure that you are not taking the tension of and hence allowing the chain to run free with no tension on it ? Flapping in the breeze as they would say ?
    Yes, I know that turning it to the right contracts the rod/shaft from the tensioner, and then releasing it slows it the expand and “tighten the chain” but regardless, I replaced the whole tensioner and my bike sounds good again. The only thing I’m not sure about is whether the cam chain was damaged as a result of failing tensioner.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: Engine noise/ticking

    by JimDirt » Sat Aug 25, 2018 3:09 pm

    Depends on how long the chain has been in the engine period , the chains stretch over time , with or without the tensioner , if it sounds good for now , then run it the remainder of the season , during winter downtime , go ahead and do a refresh , even if its only the chain that gets done , since you have had it for a year and a half , and no major maintenance has been done during this time , winter would be a good time to do a workover , check the valves now , if they are out of spec , then they are getting ready to go , so over the winter when your not rushed to ride it , do the valves and timing chain , and check the piston , if the skirt is worn , then replace it , if you do all the work yourself minus the machine work on the head for the valves , you will get away with around or under $500 and you will be good for quite a while

    I replaced my Piston , Timing Chain , and Intake Valves , including new gaskets for right around $500 , that was including machine work labor , just make sure that the shop has done or knows how to do motorcycle valve jobs , it is not the same as slapping a car head together , or have Ken here set you up with a fresh head , or have him rebuild yours **it will cost more , but you will be very happy in the long run** , if you go Stainless Intakes , you can realistically go 2 - 3 seasons or more with no maintenance with the exception of oil changes and air filter changes (air filter every ride should be cleaned) , my 450X has been on the same Stainless Intakes since late 2006 , and i have yet to need to adjust the valves , ........ keep Non Ethanol gas in it , and the carb will thank you , during the winter drain all the gas and either pour it in your car/truck , or save it for the lawn mower in the spring (these bikes do not like gas older than about 1-2 months max , they either won't start , or will be clogged up requiring a carb rebuild , and most likely a new Pilot Jet)

    Other than that , now that it is relatively quiet , go ride and have fun \:D/ , then during winter , go thru it and be fresh and ready for spring ... ;)
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho

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