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CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:37 am
by Savman
I am struggling with starting my bike with the electric start and hoping to get some guideance.
I have read through many of the posts but can's seem to get to the bottom of this one...
The challenge is that my bike battles to start with electric start, and generally starts with one or two kicks.
Once started the bike is running very well.
I have a new battery, checked all the electrical connections, done the test for stator which seems ok.
Not sure if it could be the rectifier / regulator but bike is charging at 13.5v when running.
Please could someone point me in the right direction?
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:42 am
by JimDirt
Welcome to the site !!
Have you checked the brushes in the starter ??? , often the brushes will wear and cause hard starting issues , if the starter seems to drag or turn over slowly no matter the outside or engine temp , then chances are the brushes are toast and need replacement
https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/produc ... ts_id/4023
Also , you did not mention if you have checked Valve Clearance , though you did say it started easily with the kick starter , it could still be a valve clearance issue , but by your initial description it sounds like starter brushes are most likely the cause ...
Hope that helped
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:39 am
by Savman
Thanks Jim!
Yes I did the valves a while ago - but might need to re-check them.
Quite a story taking out the starter, but I guess it must be done.
Will keep you posted!
-------------------------------
OK starter out and I have attached some photos for your comment.
I have ordered new brushes anyway and will collect tomorrow.
Thanks again for your support!
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:42 pm
by JimDirt
They don't look as bad as i thought they would , but it looks like it was drawing a lot of juice to the armature , so it could have been getting poor contact , and getting hot spots ...... before you reassemble , take some sandpaper (220 grit would work) and clean up the armature so it looks like it is on the edges , more shiny , as that will ensure your getting a good contact surface for the new brushes ...... hopefully that cures your starter issue , also , make sure the ground wire for the battery (near the starter by the chain) is tightened , and make sure the wire is secure in the connector , pull/wiggle on the wire slightly right at the connector , if it moves in the connector , then recrimp it , as grounding issues can also cause starter issues by putting the load on the armature , creating heat and a large voltage draw and overheating the armature and causing slow cranking , etc. , as the slower the engine turns over the harder it will be to start
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:34 pm
by Aussiecrf230
You may have to bed in the new brushes as well. A bit of emery wrapped around and rotate by hand to bed brushes. Shouldn't need much but sometimes needed. Clean both with some methylated spirits to remove dust. Make sure the brushes
slide easily in the holders too.
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:13 pm
by ChrisKel250
I had a similar problem and in the end it was a weak ignition coil in the alternator. The kickstarter spins the crank a bit faster so you get a bit higher voltage to the CDI. To troubleshoot the problem you need a decent multimeter to measure the ohms on the ignition coil on the alternator because literally a few ohms can make a big difference. In this situation 17ohms would be weak and say 20 ohms good. Reasons for a weak starter typically point to the oil it sits in, not lubricity but rather its ability to dissipate heat. I've heard GN4 is generally good but it may not cool the alternator as good as others. A Honda service manual also has a method of testing the output of the ignition coil but it involves additional test equipment but it is accurate. A cheaper alternative to OEM would be a Trailtech stator and flywheel. Hopefully this helps, it was my problem for a couple years.
Chris
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:37 pm
by JimDirt
I had a similar problem and in the end it was a weak ignition coil in the alternator. The kickstarter spins the crank a bit faster so you get a bit higher voltage to the CDI. To troubleshoot the problem you need a decent multimeter to measure the ohms on the ignition coil on the alternator because literally a few ohms can make a big difference. In this situation 17ohms would be weak and say 20 ohms good. Reasons for a weak starter typically point to the oil it sits in, not lubricity but rather its ability to dissipate heat. I've heard GN4 is generally good but it may not cool the alternator as good as others. A Honda service manual also has a method of testing the output of the ignition coil but it involves additional test equipment but it is accurate. A cheaper alternative to OEM would be a Trailtech stator and flywheel. Hopefully this helps, it was my problem for a couple years.
Chris
Welcome to the site !
And nice informative first post
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:03 am
by Savman
Hi Guys,
Firstly thank you for all the great input - it really helped a lot!!
Secondly it is all sorted out
)))))))
I decided to redo the shimms and while I was at it thought I would replace the rings.
Now the bike starts even before I push the starter
Thanks again!
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:26 am
by JimDirt
Glad you got it sorted out .....
So your saying the rings were the issue ?? , as this info would help anyone else with the same symptoms ...
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:43 pm
by luisonair
I think I have the same problem, what rings is he talking about? piston rings? This problem suddenly appeared in my bike, only difference is when I press Electric starter button inly makes a click and won´t turn over the starter motor.
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:59 pm
by JimDirt
I think I have the same problem, what rings is he talking about? piston rings? This problem suddenly appeared in my bike, only difference is when I press Electric starter button inly makes a click and won´t turn over the starter motor.
Yes he is talking about Piston Rings
If the bike starts easily with the kickstarter then check the battery itself for low voltage , if it has under12v , it either means it needs a charge , or the battery is going bad and losing voltage under load , also with just clicking , it could be the starter itself , as mentioned before , there are several possibilities , but you need to eliminate each item before moving on to the next , first check battery for correct voltage and what the voltage does when under a load (a battery tester will show if its holding a load or not) , it could be the starter relay as well , you could try jumping it by looking at the 2 main battery leads , 1 comes from the battery , and the other goes to the starter , if you jump across the 2 (it will spark , so don't panic) and if it does start then that is the issue , if it just clicks as before , then move on to next point of contact , like the starter itself ....as mentioned , low compression can cause the starter to not start the bike , but it will still turn over , since yours is not turning at all and only clicking then it narrows it down to Battery , Starter itself , or the Relay/solenoid , those would be my first guesses as to your issue ....
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:10 pm
by luisonair
Thank you Jim the battery seems to be in good shape, charged and holding voltage correctly (12.6v after a week) also checked if alternator is charging correctly and it is (13.8 at idle and 14.3 opening throttle) and reg/rec is working properly too, but I´ll check those 3 things you mention (I´ve read in other post that could be the battery having the volts but not amperage enough), with kickstarter it starts but after a several tries and only with the throttle fully open and choke open too, but when closing choke it dies.
Recent history
Bike was running well like a month ago, that last time my clutch cable broke since it was incorrectly routed and to get out of that trial I exchanged gears without clutch, then I installed a new clutch cable and changed oil, transmission oil, cleaned air filter and oiled it, adjusted chain, cleaned and lubed, cleaned bike. And this last time I tried to start it, first time it started perfect but died right after and weirdly a lizard came out from the exhaust! then tried to start the bike and then this problem started, it sounded like the battery was drained out only making a click and hardly starting with kickstarter and then dying if closing choke or trying to open throttle.
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:53 pm
by JimDirt
As a added thought , replace the gas with FRESH Premium , if as your saying , it take a bit of effort to kick start it , then i would guess if it sat for more than a month (anything over 3 and you need to completely clean the carb and either clean or replace the pilot jet) the gas could be going bad , especially if it has Ethanol in it , i run a mixture of 110 Octane Av Gas (from the local private airport) and 91+ Octane Non Ethanol Premium , i mix 1 gallon of Av Gas to 1-1/2 gal of the Premium , bikes start right up even after sitting for several months , and the jets stay clear
It sounds like its really lean on the Pilot circuit , so i am guessing the Pilot Jet is clogged or mostly clogged , its really easier to just replace it rather than try to clean it , especially if you don't have the proper cleaning tool
If it has to be started with the choke on and it tries to die when shutting off the choke , then that is a sure sign the pilot circuit is clogged , and/or the Hot Start is gummed up and stuck partially or all the way open , and is causing the lean condition , the hot start is located on the left side of the carb up near the top , it has a black cable that comes from the small lever at the clutch perch , and a black plastic nut (be careful not to strip the soft threads and/or the plastic nut) (10mm) and if it gets gummed up and has varnish in the opening and on the brass of the Hot Start Plunger , then it will hold the lean circuit open just like if you were holding the lever down when trying to start the bike after a fall , where it flooded ... so pay close attention to that as well ......
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:02 am
by Leardriver
Hi Guys,
Firstly thank you for all the great input - it really helped a lot!!
Secondly it is all sorted out
)))))))
I decided to redo the shimms and while I was at it thought I would replace the rings.
Now the bike starts even before I push the starter
Thanks again!
Yes, my bike starts when I give it a stern glare.
Re: CRF 250X Electric start challenge
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:51 pm
by luisonair
As a added thought , replace the gas with FRESH Premium , if as your saying , it take a bit of effort to kick start it , then i would guess if it sat for more than a month (anything over 3 and you need to completely clean the carb and either clean or replace the pilot jet) the gas could be going bad , especially if it has Ethanol in it , i run a mixture of 110 Octane Av Gas (from the local private airport) and 91+ Octane Non Ethanol Premium , i mix 1 gallon of Av Gas to 1-1/2 gal of the Premium , bikes start right up even after sitting for several months , and the jets stay clear
It sounds like its really lean on the Pilot circuit , so i am guessing the Pilot Jet is clogged or mostly clogged , its really easier to just replace it rather than try to clean it , especially if you don't have the proper cleaning tool
If it has to be started with the choke on and it tries to die when shutting off the choke , then that is a sure sign the pilot circuit is clogged , and/or the Hot Start is gummed up and stuck partially or all the way open , and is causing the lean condition , the hot start is located on the left side of the carb up near the top , it has a black cable that comes from the small lever at the clutch perch , and a black plastic nut (be careful not to strip the soft threads and/or the plastic nut) (10mm) and if it gets gummed up and has varnish in the opening and on the brass of the Hot Start Plunger , then it will hold the lean circuit open just like if you were holding the lever down when trying to start the bike after a fall , where it flooded ... so pay close attention to that as well ......
Thank you Jim, that´s great and detailed info I´ll do that.