Are the days of trail riding numbered???
  • Ed Stoll
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    Are the days of trail riding numbered???

    by Ed Stoll » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:17 am

    I don't know if anyone else has noticed that lately the subject of global warming and the affects on the environment have been a very hot subject. The Live Earth Concert was a huge success for Gore and of course NBC. Politicians are making global warming a part of there political campaign. Most news media outlets are pounding it into their audiences the negative impact and long term affects of global warming. There is much debate on both sides of the issue. It's seems the politically correct want to stop anything that has to do with global warming. While other scientists that are willing to debate global warming and whether it's man made or not are criticized by their peers, politicians, entertainers and of course the media. I love how Hollywood types are claiming to be so green and yet they travel in their private jets, and stretch limos. It all seems a bit on the hypocrital side. I wonder how long it will be before local politicians under pressure from the media and hollywood types will start eliminating places like Dove Springs, Gorman, Piru MX Park, and El Mirage all in the name of global warming. I love to ride as much as I can, and hope to get my family more involved with the sport. I am also enviromentally conscience. I stay on marked trails, pick up my trash where ever I go and try to be courtious to others who are out hiking, mountain bike riding and horseback riding. I fear that we will lose the privilege to ride in these ares as well as many other areas that I have not mentioned. Just because it's the politically correct flavor of the moment. :(
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    djh65
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    by djh65 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:48 pm

    Who says this is the perfect climate for this planet????? This just happens to be the one people like.
    David
    06 HD450X made in america.
    Faster and faster til the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!!!!
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  • vetteguy
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    by vetteguy » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:57 pm

    I fear you are correct. There are way less places to ride now than when I was a kid. Our Grand children and so on will not have anywhere to ride. I hope I'm wrong. Guy
    2001 XR200R
    2002 XR400
    2005 CRF230F (son)
  • Ed Stoll
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    by Ed Stoll » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:29 pm

    I fear it's only a matter of time before most places will be closed to all trail riding.
    A couple of seasons ago I was out at a place called "Charlie's Place", the area is open to desert riding and camping. It's a fun place to ride. The sad thing is that I witnessed a couple of guys around the age of 18 years old tagging the rock formations with spray paint. :x When I approached them about it, theses guys didn't give a rats a$$. They started to get in our faces and were like "what are you going to do about it??" It's people like this that help encourage the closure of riding areas. Like it was stated earlier, when our grand kids are old enough to ride, there will no longer be anyplace for them to ride.
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    djh65
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    by djh65 » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:40 pm

    Everything is numbered. Nobody in this country give a crap about anybody else. Think of all the things that have been banned and then think about what is next to be banned. Cigarette smoking may not be your thing but it's a start. What's next?? off road riding? Drinking? A religion other than Christian?
    I'm a life long non-smoker but what they are doing to smokers really really scares me. I think OHV will be next because not enough people do it and it's an easy mark. Then I see them working on Booze, or who knows but there will be something and eventually it will be something you care about.
    Bah humbug
    David
    06 HD450X made in america.
    Faster and faster til the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!!!!
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  • BWalker508D
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    by BWalker508D » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:59 pm

    I dont even like to talk about it. You guys are making me sad... :cry:
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    Roady
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    by Roady » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:24 pm

    38 years of never missing a season of riding. This has been happening for decades and we take one step forward and two back. Heck, I used to ride out of Charlie's with my parents when Charlie and Murriel were alive and ran a little bar (hence "Charlie's Place") on the cement pad you see when you pull in.

    I do what I can, engage in the process where/when I can, but have become somewhat cynical after experiencing this for close to 4 decades. I will tell you one thing, I better understand the gun enthusiast perspective of "they can have my gun when they pry my dead fingers from it." Call it "civil disobedience" or whatever you want, I will not stop riding my CA High Desert. Technically, we have more right to it than non-riders since we are taxed to maintain our government lands above and beyond Joe citizen with green sticker monies as well.

    Too bad there weren't a few more of us with you when you encountered the losers attempting to make the wide open spaces look like East LA. Every group has its share of clowns that give the whackos someone to point at and attempt to broad brush the overwhelming majority of us who are out to bask in the beauty of the open.
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  • Ed Stoll
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    by Ed Stoll » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:02 am

    It really annoys me to see other riders that have no common sense when it comes to land use. The idiots that I mentioned before, seem to have no idea how close we are to losing that area for riding. The BLM is all over that whole area and are so ready to shut it down permanently. Right now if you are to ride in the Randsburg area, you are very limited. You used to be able to ride a huge amount of various trails, but the BLM has limited the trails to a select few. I hear that Randsburg will eventually be closed to all off-road access. As I read various posts here on CRF's Only, it's a bit reassuring to see that some people feel the same way I do. I think that as a community we can help secure the remaining riding areas that are left. I am a member of the AMA and the Blue Ribbon Coalition, and I strongly recommend others to become members as well. I know a few people feel that the AMA does absolutely nothing for off-road riders, but at least they have a presence where it matters.
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    djh65
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    by djh65 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:11 am

    Take a look at this site and let your public officials know how you feel.
    David
    http://www.clorv.org/index.html
    06 HD450X made in america.
    Faster and faster til the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death!!!!
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    NCLR1
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    by NCLR1 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:41 am

    I am not the authority on this but, hasn't the Earth been getting warmer and warmer since, well forever. The Earth was covered in ice. So, I guess this means that there will be more tropical vacation destinations. 8)
    Tony C
  • Ed Stoll
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    by Ed Stoll » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:58 pm

    I am no scientist by any means or stretch or the imagination. However, I have heard and read that during the dark ages the temperatures in Europe were quite radical, and in somes cases reletivly close to what we are seeing now. I am not sure if this is fact. But if that were the case, I guess global warming back then was caused by extreme exhaust from all of the horses?? :lol: I just saying.
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    djh65
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    by djh65 » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:09 pm

    Keep in mind there was always a giant forest fire burning. The air is cleaner now then it was back then. :)
    David
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    jsauer
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    by jsauer » Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:17 pm

    Interesting article on Global Warming my uncle sent me....


    Local scientist calls global warming theory 'hooey'

    Samara Kalk Derby

    Reid Bryson, known as the father of scientific climatology, considers global warming a bunch of hooey.

    The UW-Madison professor emeritus, who stands against the scientific consensus on this issue, is referred to as a global warming skeptic. But he is not skeptical that global warming exists, he is just doubtful that humans are the cause of it.

    There is no question the earth has been warming. It is coming out of the "Little Ice Age," he said in an interview this week.

    "However, there is no credible evidence that it is due to mankind and carbon dioxide. We've been coming out of a Little Ice Age for 300 years. We have not been making very much carbon dioxide for 300 years. It's been warming up for a long time," Bryson said.

    The Little Ice Age was driven by volcanic activity. That settled down so it is getting warmer, he said.

    Humans are polluting the air and adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, but the effect is tiny, Bryson said.

    "It's like there is an elephant charging in and you worry about the fact that there is a fly sitting on its head. It's just a total misplacement of emphasis," he said. "It really isn't science because there's no really good scientific evidence."

    Just because almost all of the scientific community believes in man-made global warming proves absolutely nothing, Bryson said. "Consensus doesn't prove anything, in science or anywhere else, except in democracy, maybe."

    Bryson, 87, was the founding chairman of the department of meteorology at UW-Madison and of the Institute for Environmental Studies, now known as the Gaylord Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies. He retired in 1985, but has gone into the office almost every day since. He does it without pay.

    "I have now worked for zero dollars since I retired, long enough that I have paid back the people of Wisconsin every cent they paid me to give me a wonderful, wonderful career. So we are even now. And I feel good about that," said Bryson.

    So, if global warming isn't such a burning issue, why are thousands of scientists so concerned about it?

    "Why are so many thousands not concerned about it?" Bryson shot back.

    "There is a lot of money to be made in this," he added. "If you want to be an eminent scientist you have to have a lot of grad students and a lot of grants. You can't get grants unless you say, 'Oh global warming, yes, yes, carbon dioxide.'"

    Speaking out against global warming is like being a heretic, Bryson noted.

    And it's not something that he does regularly.

    "I can't waste my time on that, I have too many other things to do," he said.

    But if somebody asks him for his opinion on global warming, he'll give it. "And I think I know about as much about it as anybody does."

    Up against his students' students: Reporters will often call the meteorology building seeking the opinion of a scientist and some beginning graduate student will pick up the phone and say he or she is a meteorologist, Bryson said. "And that goes in the paper as 'scientists say.'"

    The word of this young graduate student then trumps the views of someone like Bryson, who has been working in the field for more than 50 years, he said. "It is sort of a smear."

    Bryson said he recently wrote something on the subject and two graduate students told him he was wrong, citing research done by one of their professors. That professor, Bryson noted, is probably the student of one of his students.

    "Well, that professor happened to be wrong," he said.

    "There is very little truth to what is being said and an awful lot of religion. It's almost a religion. Where you have to believe in anthropogenic (or man-made) global warming or else you are nuts."

    While Bryson doesn't think that global warming is man-made, he said there is some evidence of an effect from mankind, but not an effect of carbon dioxide.

    For example, in Wisconsin in the last 100 years the biggest heating has been around Madison, Milwaukee and in the Southeast, where the cities are. There was a slight change in the Green Bay area, he said. The rest of the state shows no warming at all.

    "The growth of cities makes it hotter, but that was true back in the 1930s, too," Bryson said. "Big cities were hotter than the surrounding countryside because you concentrate the traffic and you concentrate the home heating. And you modify the surface, you pave a lot of it."

    Bryson didn't see Al Gore's movie about global warming, "An Inconvenient Truth."

    "Don't make me throw up," he said. "It is not science. It is not true."

    Not so fast, say scientists: Galen McKinley, an assistant professor of atmospheric and oceanic sciences at UW-Madison disagrees with Bryson, whom she notes is a respected researcher and professor with a long history at the university.

    "There are innumerable studies that show that the shoe fits for global warming, I guess you could say, and the human causation for it," McKinley said.

    "We understand very well the basic process of the greenhouse effect, which is that we know that the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increases the heat trapped by the atmosphere. You put one dollar more in the bank and you have one dollar more there tomorrow. It's a very clear feedback," she said.

    Carbon dioxide emissions have been increasing over the industrial period, about 200 years, and can be observed very clearly through about 100 monitoring stations worldwide, McKinley said.

    The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is increasing consistently with the amount that humans are putting into the atmosphere, she said.

    "We know humans are putting it there, we understand the basic mechanism and we know that the temperatures are warming. Many, many, many studies illustrate that both at the global scale and at the regional scale."

    She cited the work of John Magnuson, a UW-Madison professor emeritus of limnology who is internationally known for his lake studies. Magnuson records the number of days of ice on the lakes in southern Wisconsin, including Mendota and Monona.

    His research shows that over the course of the last 150 years, the average has gone from about four months of ice cover to more like 2.5 months, McKinley said.

    Bryson would say that it is due to coming out of an Ice Age, McKinley notes, "but the rate of change that we are seeing on the planet is inconsistent with changes in the past that have been due to an Ice Age."

    The huge changes in temperature that scientists are seeing are happening much faster than have ever been observed in the past due to the change from an Ice Age phase to a non-Ice Age phase, she said.

    "We know that humans are putting CO2 into the atmosphere at an incredibly fast rate, much, much faster than any natural process has done it in the last at least 400,000 years and probably more like millions of years."

    The rate of change is consistent with human activity, she said. That is why so many major scientific societies are concerned about global warming, she added.

    The release in February of the latest report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) put the likelihood that human beings are the cause of global warming at 90 percent. It noted that temperatures will continue to climb for decades, that heat waves and floods will become more frequent and that the last time the Arctic and the Antarctic were warmer than they are today for an extended period -- before the start of the last Ice Age -- global sea levels were at least thirteen feet higher.

    IPCC, founded in 1988, is the joint venture of the United Nations Environment Program and the World Meteorological Organization. Every four or five years, it conducts an exhaustive survey of the available data and issues a multivolume assessment of the state of the climate. IPCC's reports are vetted by thousands of scientists and the organization's 190-plus participating governments.

    "My views are very similar to those expressed by IPCC," said Steve Vavrus, an associate scientist at the UW-Madison Center for Climatic Research.

    "Reid Bryson maintains his long-standing opinions on anthropogenic climate change, and he's certainly entitled to them," Vavrus said.

    "The scientific process is never 100 percent sure and it could be proven wrong," McKinley added.

    "But I would say that the chances of that based on all of the best information at this current time are incredibly slim. And even though that possibility is out there, it would be irresponsible of us as a society not to act based on the best scientific information we have at the moment, which is that humans are causing the warming of the planet," she said.

    "If you saw smoke in your house, it would be irresponsible not to get your family out, right?"
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    Isaacc
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    by Isaacc » Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:17 am

    the atmosphere of world is disturbed day by day due to pollution.

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