[Back2-2]

There ya go. I know there was a hole somewhere.

[Andy Salmonsen]

Ok, I’ll give the floating valve seal a check Ali though I haven’t done anything too it. Gonna give jets another clean and run some wire thru them to clean them out better.
I’ve been talking with my uncle(he is an AHRMA racer and has had a lot of experience with bikes) and he says that it could also be timing. I’m gonna move the link back one because I remember hearing that the mark on the right side of cam is the more reliable of the two. I think it’s gotta be one of these two problems so fingers crossed it is.

[Andy Salmonsen]

Well guys, I think i put myself way to deep in the hole now.

We figured out timing was off so had change the timing on the bike because it was a tooth off. With cam holders of the cam i went to rotate the crank to put it at idc (forgot about cam when i did this). The cam became wedged in the head and we were able to get it out but in the process we derailed the cam chain from the lower sprocket and didn't know. Put everything back together on engine and i was about too put carb on when i went to double check engine and it would only rotate so far before stopping. Found the cam chain was derailed and knew we had to take stator cover off to get to it. It was at this point where the big screw up happened. My dad went to take the cam off so we had more slack on the chain so we could put it back on the lower sprocket. I had failed to tell my dad that the bike has to have everything at idc to take cam off and he didn't know this and took the cam off. So now we have no idea if the valves are open or not, the cam chain is off the sprocket and we still dont know if the bike will run... fun times am i right?

At this point i know I'm pretty far in over my head and am pretty sure I'm gonna bring the bike into shop to have them put it back together right, figure out the valve dilemma and get the bike running.

If one of you guys knows how to fix these problems please let me know, and if I'm way in over my head at this point please let me know.

Thanks

[Aussiecrf230]

Landon,
I am impessed that you stopped and rechecked before putting the carb on.
It shows you are thinking about what you are doing and this tells me you can do this still. Imagine you didn't think to check and tried to start it.
Yes it is a pain when the chain comes off the bottom cog, but I can guarantee it has happened to lots of people and you won't be the last.

Now Stop and think for a second.
With the cam removed the valves are all closed.
TDC for the piston can be confirmed by the timing marks.
The cam timing is right when then lobes are pointing at 2 o'clock and all you marks are aligned properly.
It is not that big an issue other than having to get the chain around the bottom cog again. There maybe a trick the others can suggest to get back on but pulling the flywheel is the safe way.

You will have to get a flywheel puller to get the flywheel off safely and don't forget what was said about the brass plug in the end of the crank when using a flywheel puller.

Yes a hassle to buy a tool, but we can tell you are bike infected now and tools never go to waste. There maybe a gasket required as well but I am sure Neil or Jim can fill you in on what to do. The money you save doing it yourself will be much less than the shop even with the flywheel puller.
You may even be able to borrow a flywheel puller if you're lucky.

Take a breath and wait for the guys to clue you in on how to do it.

[Back2-2]

Agree with what Ray gave you. All excellent advice.
First, when working on anything to many irons in the fire is always going to get someone burned.
Maybe a step in slowing down and taking more time would be good advice. Step by step.

You can "feel" the chain get back on the lower sprocket [ with the tensioner removed ] . Just envision it in your mind and lightly let the chain go slack and then bring it up while rotation the chain to engage in the lower teeth. Not the first and certainly not the last time this has happened. More often people let the chain fall down in the lower end and have to fish it out and re-align it.

Start over and take your time. Follow the manual and get things straightened out. You are doing it, you just have run into a few snags.
TDC can also be determined and verified with a depth gauge and rotating the engine. In fact I always verify that way just to be sure the piston is 100% TDC. Redo everything to verify the timing is correct once you get the chain reengaged - Marks, cam position, TDC ect...

A shop would charge you a fortune to pick up the pieces of a half done project. You can do this.

[Andy Salmonsen]

So the valves are actually all closed? I thought that if u took the cam off with it not being at tdc and the crank not being at tdc that the valves would be open and you would never be able to figure out how to align the valves. If you guys are correct on this u just made my day. I thought that I had just screwed my bike over and I felt pretty down yesterday about this because I had came so far only too screw up. I seriously can’t thank you guys enough you guys are awesome!!! Once I get my bike running, if u guys are ever in so cal we gotta go for a ride

[JimDirt]

Yes follow the guide from Ray and Neil .... You should be able to (with the cam out) pull on the chain and feel it catching the teeth of the crank sprocket , you should (with the spark plug out) be able to rotate the engine slightly back and forth , by just pulling on the front/back of the chain , if you see the crank move , then hold tension on the chain , and look (or have your dad look) at the timing mark on the right in the large round hole , once it is lined up , then look for the mark in the small hole , if they are both lined , THEN reinstall the cam/tower ..........

When installing the cam do as Ray mentioned and set the lobes around 2 0'clock facing rear , (looking from the ignition side) , , All valves are closed with the tension from the valve springs , they always hold the valves closed when nothing is pressing on the stems , align the 2 slash marks level with the head (tensioner is removed when doing this) install the chain on the sprocket with the cam tilted down into the opening , and set the tower in place , reaffirm the marks are level and nothing else has changed , then tighten the tower , install the tensioner , and recheck the timing marks (all 3 of them , as I and the others had mentioned in the first part of this topic 4 or 5 pages back , as the procedure is always the same) , rotate the engine by hand with the kick start , or using a socket on the balancer in the large hole , and watch the cam , when it gets to around 2 0'clock again after a couple of rotations , look at all the marks again , when the clutch side mark is aligned and the cam marks are level and the lobes are facing 2 0'clock ,the mark in the small hole should also be there , then you should be good to go........

You have done all of this so far on your own , don't give up and waste money on a shop labor price that you do not need to spend , you are doing fine , and we are all here to help if you don't ...

[Aussiecrf230]

What's this "If you guys are correct"?

Think about it, that cam lobes push the valves down to open them and the valve springs snap the valves shut.
For sure the manual warns that you don't want to get the timing between the crank and cam incorrect because it doesn't run well or worse the valves and piston smash into each other.
As Neil said take it slow and steady, check and recheck.

If it gets to much just walk away and do something else you have to do and come back to it with a clear head the next day.
Your Dad and you are still learning but there still needs to be one leader and one helper when working on the bike. Just take it easy on each other, you first top overhaul can be a little stressful when things don't go as planned.

You could have bought a 2 stroke if you don't like timing chains, LOL.

[Andy Salmonsen]

Ooohhh ok it makes sense to me now that I guys have explained it. Gave myself today off from working on bike needed to clear my head so I went and rode with my friend and his dad at the track(used my dads bike because he has a broken ankle right now and can’t ride). My friend ended up in the hospital today when we did go ride because he went sideways off a jump and landed really bad. Fractured his shoulder and arm I think. Gotta order a gasket for left side cover and then I can get back to working on the bike.

Thanks you guys

[JimDirt]

No problem , that is what this place is for .... Hopefully your friend heals up quickly (and your dad) , It's not IF you are going to crash , it's When and How Bad .... , that is what makes it so fun , the challenge of staying on the bike and making it thru the day unscathed .....

[Andy Salmonsen]

Yeah, they actually read the c rays wrong so he doesn’t have anything fractures which is great!!! Yeah I have too say the adrenaline makes it awesome it just sucks when something happens like this because all the moms in my friend group loose it(my mom says she doesn’t want me to jump my bike for like 2-3 years now )

[Aussiecrf230]

Could be worse and you could be riding on the road, then your mother would have something to worry about.

It's what mums do and trust me it never stops.

Mind, if you survive on the dirt it will make you a better road rider.

[JimDirt]

I am 60 years old , the first pic was when I was 49 , and the bottom was when I was 57 (actually happened on my B-Day) so stuff happens in the dirt , but all the pain beats sitting around watching life go by without the joy of riding in between injuries , and realistically , you can walk out your front door in the winter and slip on the ice and get the same injuries .... So are you not going to go outside anymore because you got hurt walking ?? I think not .... ..... Also the worst injury I got was riding on the street and getting hit by a car , it was far worse than these injuries were ........

[Aussiecrf230]

What Jim is trying to say is ride safe and ride with a friend so you can look out for each other.
And as far as walking on ice then black ice is the worst as you can't see it.

PS don't show your mum the Jims x-rays.

[JimDirt]

Yep ... I pretty much only ride with others now (it's kind of like having caretakers take you out for a stroll , but real fast ) , as I have had too many medical issues to chance riding by myself anymore , but I refuse to give up riding , hopefully around the first of next year , my truck will be paid off , then its new bike time (2019 or 20 CRF450R) ... The guys I ride with are in their 50's and another one is only 4 months younger than I am (he is 60 and had 1 hip replaced because of a crash) ..... Point is , if you love riding .... Then ride and enjoy it while you are able .... you will regret it if you don't ...