Piston Damage From Valves
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am
    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:48 pm

    That's good So is the piston in correctly now that you confirmed the arrow or backwards ?
    General rule - Normal air flow always should be identified in the direction that the air will be flowing if an arrow or markings are used.

    Clay can be used as a marker for checking clearance between two points where contact or clearance is a concern. Just like the strips used to check crank clearances but clay is for wider points you are checking. I use what is called modeling clay.
    Yes it is now in the correct way. On the clay. Would I put some clay on the piston, put the head back on, then turn the bike over a few times and see how much it smushed the clay to figure out my clearance?
  • Back2-2
    Posts:1148
    Joined:Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:31 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Back2-2 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:04 pm

    Yes. that is how to use it.
    So is the piston correct now and was reversed before or has been the correct orientation all along?
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts:1964
    Joined:Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Aussiecrf230 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:08 pm

    Plasticene works like clay, even play doh would work.
    Try to have a least one millimetre clearance to allow for valve float at ridiculous revs.
    Maybe title should be piston damages valves.

    Luckily the damage to the piston is slight. Hopefully it will buff out.
    If you had full valve impressions on piston the big and little bearings would probably be toast.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:54 pm

    Yes. that is how to use it.
    So is the piston correct now and was reversed before or has been the correct orientation all along?
    Yes it was reversed all along.

    I will make sure to check the clearance before starting the bike. Will I have to do anything to the piston before using it? Like anything to the mark if that makes sense? And one more thing on the clay, should I just put it all over the piston or only where the valves are?
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:58 pm

    Plasticene works like clay, even play doh would work.
    Try to have a least one millimetre clearance to allow for valve float at ridiculous revs.
    Maybe title should be piston damages valves.

    Luckily the damage to the piston is slight. Hopefully it will buff out.
    If you had full valve impressions on piston the big and little bearings would probably be toast.
    I agree. If there was anymore damage then there is then I would be totally discouraged. Not only because of the expenses but because the are from a silly mistake on me not paying attention.
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts:1964
    Joined:Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Aussiecrf230 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:10 am

    Don't feel to bad mistakes are how we learn.
    I have seen rebuilds done by "Pros" on YouTube and the like and the piston direction is often not mentioned. Is obvious by the cut outs on OEM pistons.

    If the valves aren't bent and seal properly I would say you are lucky.
    It would be worth disassembing the exhaust valves and make sure the move freely and check with a bit of prussian blue that they still seat correctly.

    Clean up the dings on the piston with a bit of emery to just smooth it out so it doesn't leave a hot spot. Makes sure the grit and alloy doesn't go down the bore.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • Back2-2
    Posts:1148
    Joined:Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:31 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Back2-2 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:22 am

    Now we are getting down to the root cause. As Ray stated, clean up the witness spot with some emery cloth and maybe a small stone. I doubt you even need to do the clay check now that you found the issue. But is you do you are only looking to check the valve area that was in question. Also as ray stated i would do a good inspection on the valve that hit the piston.
    These things happen. Once you make a mistake learn from it as to not ever make it again.
    Take your time & inspect and reinspect as you go back together.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:44 am

    Will do with the emery cloth and checking the exhaust valves. I have one more question. Since the piston looked pretty much identical on both sides why would the valve still hit? Unless it doesn't really look identical to you guys lol.
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:14 pm

    I was inspecting the exhaust valves and I looked threw the exhaust port and saw that one side looked wet, I rubbed my finger in it and it appeared to be oil. The left exhaust valve was the only one that had the oil like substance in it.

    Here is a link to a video of what I'm talking about: https://imgur.com/a/Ltkjer6

    Could this be caused by the Exhaust Valve Stem Seal leaking or something else? I looked at the left valve and it didn't look bent when compared to the right valve.
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts:1964
    Joined:Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Aussiecrf230 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:24 pm

    Not sure what the dampness is, maybe a bit of fuel has softened the carbon.
    Check the seal is still intact why you have things apart.

    From the full photo the cutouts look slightly different side to side.
    Put a sheet of tracing paper/ grease proof paper from the kitchen and do a rubbing with a pencil.
    Turn it around 180 degrees and see if the cutouts line up or are different.

    Naturally check the valves for contact as you put things back together.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:23 pm

    Not sure what the dampness is, maybe a bit of fuel has softened the carbon.
    Check the seal is still intact why you have things apart.

    From the full photo the cutouts look slightly different side to side.
    Put a sheet of tracing paper/ grease proof paper from the kitchen and do a rubbing with a pencil.
    Turn it around 180 degrees and see if the cutouts line up or are different.

    Naturally check the valves for contact as you put things back together.
    Will do. On one of your other reply’s u talked about putting Prussian blue on the valves to see if the seat correctly, I looked it up and it was this vibrant blue powder stuff, I’m sure that’s not what your talking about right?
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts:1964
    Joined:Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Aussiecrf230 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:30 pm

    Yep bright blue in a light grease.
    https://www.permatex.com/products/speci ... sian-blue/

    You could probably use a light grease.
    It just makes easier to see and is used to check fits when maching things.
    Smear some on the valve face. With a finger on tip of valve stem and another underneath the valve head slam the valve onto the seat.
    When you remove the valve there should be a concentric ring on the valve face and if everything is OK the grease squeezes out where the valve seat mates with the valve.

    The old turn the assembled head upside down and poor some fuel into the chamber to see which valve has a leak back into the port at least shows it is sealed. Using the prussian blue or grease will indicate even pressure around the valve face and can show slight bends on valve head or if the seating angles are not the same. If you do it post up a picture of the seat and the valve face.

    Neil is going to say it is an old school method but it has always worked for me.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • Back2-2
    Posts:1148
    Joined:Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:31 pm

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Back2-2 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:07 pm

    I completely agree Ray - I thought that might be over the posters limits and I just thought if the head was still all assembled it would be an easy check for the guy. I myself trust my judgement and experience with witness marking indicators but it is not in everyone's skill set.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Swift-Rider
    Posts:49
    Joined:Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:51 am

    Re: Piston Damage From Valves

    by Swift-Rider » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:28 pm

    Ahh ok I see what your talking about now. I’ll have to do the old school way of pouring the gas and seeing if it leaks because I’ve taken out the valves and put them back in and the little pin things make me frustrated trying to get them in lol.

    One thing to note is that there was very slight bluing on the intake valve stems, is that normal and would it affect the bike running?

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