07 450r sm set up
  • punkrockkiel
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    07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:11 pm

    so I got the basics down I need to know for my weight but I am a little confused.
    rider weight 220
    so race tech says oil level 370cc, what kinda oil should I run?
    pressure spring 1.8kg
    main spring .52kg
    rear spring .63kg
    also plan on running race tech gold valve kit (figured if I'm in there might as well do it once but don't know if it makes a difference)

    now I cant find exact info on why no one sells the spacers needed for lowering the forks but its said you can make a set outta pvc real easy. but then it says to get shorter main springs cause of running the spacers to lower it.

    bike is an 07 crf450r
    any advice is much appreciated, I wanna do my own forks rather than send um out, I have the skill so might as well learn something new.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by JimDirt » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:08 pm

    You can lower the rear 1.5" by using a 02-04 shock , the clevis (the part that hangs down where you adjust the rebound and attaches to the linkage) on the 02 is 10mm shorter and you won't have to do any internal mods to lower it , and internally its basically the same as the 07 with the exception of the valving , the forks you should talk to Race Tech and see if they will sell you a lowering spacer for the forks or what they recommend you do , as Safety is key and you don't want to just go sticking things in the forks that could effect how they work , i believe the fork springs would need to be shorter depending on how much you want it lowered , if lowering was minimal , you should have enough "wiggle room" with the springs as is , otherwise if its several inches i would think you will have too much Preload with a stock length spring , you could also get a Lowering Link like a Kouba Link for the rear , i have one on my 450X and it lowers the rear 1-3/4" , Ken sells them here , the forks i just raised in the clamps 6mm , i personally have never done internal lowering so i can't comment on the PVC , but from what i understand you would need to machine the PVC down to fit into the inner chamber and to have it not screw up your inner chamber seals ....again , i would contact Race Tech and get "proper" advice as they lower suspension all the time and can guide you to what you need to do , to do it "right"

    Note: with the 1.75 link you will be setting your sag between 80mm to 100mm depending on how much steering you desire , less sag = more/quicker steering , more sag = less sensitive steering , you may also want to change your triple clamps to 20mm as well , this will also give quicker steering , but less high speed stability (it can give you some head shake)

    1-3/4" Kouba Link
    https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id/575

    1.4" Kouba Link
    https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/produc ... cts_id/580

    Hope that helped some..... ;)
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • rocket625
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by rocket625 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:00 pm

    .52 front spring might be harsh for trails but ok for tracks im going .50 for trails


    love to know what that race tech gold feels like before i spend the money to get get one, but I know I want it.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by JimDirt » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:08 pm

    .52 front spring might be harsh for trails but ok for tracks im going .50 for trails


    love to know what that race tech gold feels like before i spend the money to get get one, but I know I want it.

    Remember , Springs are for your weight to hold up the bike , not for the plushness , that is in valving , unless your a A rider then you want to go 1 rate stiffer than what a "normal" rider would run , you could leave the 0.52 and go to a 1.75 Pressure Spring (stock is 1.90) that will help some with the initial harshness , , , i run Gold valve kits in both my bikes , my X is plush enough for Endurocross , you can just hit stuff and its like butter , my R is the same , except i valved it stiffer since i do ride MX with it as well as off-road , if you go with Race Tech , talk to Louie , or ask them to get you in contact with Mike Crow , he helped me thru some issues with valving my 02 R (the hardest one to valve correctly because of the smaller size shims than all other year R's) , i can also walk you thru anything you might get stuck on doing it , personally , i would do both the Compression and Rebound/mid-valve , you will get the most benefit from it (Ken sells the Gold Valve kits here)

    On a side note when i dropped from 225 to 212 (i am now 190 after having a heart attack on New Years day) i was using 0.52 , then went to 0.50 , and i had to stiffen the clickers to compensate for the softer spring (i am on the far side of 57 and still decently fast , well i was till i broke my wrist last Aug. now i am just thinking about riding again and , now putting my bike back together after the wreck) , i was going to go back to the 0.52 , but will ride it with the 0.50 in it to see how my wrist does at first then decide where to go with springs and because of my 20+ lbs weight loss in the last 3 months , my 02 does single track well and MX , both very forgiving comfort

    The thing with spring rates is you want the bike to stay UP in the stroke , if its so soft you are riding with the forks half way compressed , you will end up getting a stiffer ride than with a stiffer spring , as the valving is already past the point it needs to move , as valving works in stages , if the bike is so soft that your already using half the stroke , then the valving will open too late in the stroke and make the ride harsher , not plusher , and you will end up fighting settings without positive results , so if anything , keep the rate where it is and get your ride from the valving , not the spring rate ...follow ???

    This is what gold valving allows , watch in the rocky corner , the ability to just ride right thru it , i actually pass my friend in the rocks , and i mean ROCKS

    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • punkrockkiel
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:00 pm

    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:42 am

    thanx for the advice jim! I looked into racetech and I got in contact with a guy thru a supermoto page on facebook. I am definitely not worried about trails and woods riding as I got a 700xx atv for that. I had this bike offroad once for a good day and it was fun and I even laughed when I fell every time but its not meant for me. so 700xx was good to try.
    the guy I talked to knew about supermoto and had exactly what I needed. even the rebuild kits. I went with internal spacers and shorter front springs and a slightly longer rear spring but all springs were stiffer for sure. rebuilding the forks and shock was pretty simple minus when I took an oil bath but I learned from it. shock oil was brown like a mud puddle and lacked oil and forks didn't have enough oil but had been opened up once before. I did understand what you said about the valving and using the stroke jim and that's no longer the case cause it doesn't squat like it use to when I sit on. I have yet to read up on sag and set it up cause I'm usually by myself working on things, so its hard to find help.
    on the first real ride to work, it was night and day better and well worth it. adjusters are all set in the middle from hard to soft but I need warmer days and more seat time before I change much more. the best part is chain slap is gone now cause the swing arm flattened out. for anyone going supermoto, its well worth the investment to do it for street riding.
  • punkrockkiel
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:49 am

    forgot to add, I knew about the different rear shocks but I didn't wanna buy a different shock just to rebuild that too. and I cant move my front shocks up much cause my bars are close to the triples.

    as far as the gold valve kits, I don't quite understand what they do. I cleaned all fork valve packs well and put it all back as it was and went with 10w oil.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by JimDirt » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:55 am

    Glad to hear your getting it sorted out , The issue with "Supermoto" is the suspension needs are different from "normal" dirt use , so its more directed at stability and consistency in corners , etc , as opposed to jumping and changing dirt conditions and ruts , braking bumps, etc. , though Supermoto does have jumps they are small and rounded , and hard packed and your not getting much air , so the bottoming and using the full stroke issues that are found in dirt are not really a factor on mostly pavement riding/racing

    As for what the Gold Valve itself does , its mainly a freer flowing more opened up version of the stock valve , the purpose of the valve is for a oil transfer/pressure transfer area of the valving , , the shims do the majority of the work and what gets you the firmness or plushness in a given part of the stroke , the valves simply are a transfer port and the area where the valving stacks are working from , the oil going thru the Valve itself is what determines the oil flow to the shims , though the newer bikes , are far superior than the older models (like my 02 , which they only made the smaller 10mm valving for that 1 year then went to a larger 20mm shim and valve size) , and the newer bikes are really similar to what the Gold Valve itself offers , but with the Race Tech Kits , what you get is all the shims and the setup sheets to allow you to adjust your valving as needed for different situations or skill levels , where if you just bought the shims individually and "tried" messing with the suspension by guessing , you would most likely cause more issues than you fix and be buying a ton of extra parts you really won't use , plus you can call Race Tech and get help when your stuck on something , as well as your learning as you go , which helps you understand what your doing , and why

    The 10 wt will be fine for your needs , it will help with fork dive in corners , as the thicker oil will help hold the front end up in corners and under heavy braking loads , and your not really needing the plushness the lighter weight oil gives because your mainly on pavement
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • punkrockkiel
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:07 am

    sounds like I went in the right direction. I wanted to stick with my forks but I do have a pair of 04 forks which are wrong in all the ways I don't wanna go as far as brake caliper mount and the axle offset is further out. them forks will just sit on the parts pile.

    I'm gonna hit the road for a decent run today and see how I like it more, just installed a sena s10 into the helmet so I got some music to listen to finally. prolly should open the bleeder screws in the fork and lets the excess air out since I haven't.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by JimDirt » Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:19 pm

    Give a ride report with the new setup... O:)
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • punkrockkiel
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    Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:00 pm

    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:12 pm

    well got a little ride in today, handles the corners and bumps better, I just need to add more preload to the rear shock. front doesn't dive half as much as it did.
    well that was the good news. so I was cruising a back road at 60ish in 5th and the bike bucked pretty hard, so I grabbed the clutch and gave it a little rev and let it come down to idle thinking it was a carb/fuel issue. rode another 1/4 mile to gas station/dq/pilot truck stop. then I found the issue, went to downshift to roll into the parking lot and couldn't. so jumped off the bike holding the clutch and rocking it trying to get it outta gear and it wouldn't. shut it off and let it cool down and started calling for a ride. tried again to find gears, I got 1st 2nd and neutral.
    got home and let the oils and coolant drain and took a nap (3rd shift working life) and came out and 3 hours and 20 minutes later I found the issue. if ken could chime in, id like some advice cause these were the crf-x gears I got a little over a year ago. the gear selectors measured in spec too.
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    so only 3 things I can think of that happened....
    1.shift selector somehow was out of spec
    2.just switched to Honda trans oil and it wasn't doing it job for the gears (blue color means something got hot)
    3.the chain might have gotten a little tight cause I noticed I needed more preload upon tear down but if that was the case, the output shaft would have an issue, not the input shaft.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by JimDirt » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:22 am

    Ouch ! #-o

    So my first question is ....were you running a full quart of oil in the trans ?? , for street use , it helps a lot in preventing oil evacuation when in 4th - 5th for extended periods
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts: 1558
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by Aussiecrf230 » Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:30 am

    Whoa, that's not something you see everyday.
    Is that beach marks on the left side of the gear?
    Chance of some better photo of the break, I know it is hard to get them.
    Just trying to work out where the damage started.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • punkrockkiel
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:00 pm

    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:57 pm

    I'm sure I had enough oil in as bike was on kickstand and I filled it til it came out the hole and then added more like normal plus the bike was leaning towards the left so I automatically got extra in from the start.

    nothing else has damage as far as I could see. I have to work tonight so I didn't go out to the garage today to get a jump start on cleaning parts.
    the lighting in the garage takes shitty pictures all the time, hard to get camera to work with led lights. all the gears were new, bought the x kit from ken. idk how or why it would break now cause I prolly got 2-2500 miles on everything. I'm still wondering if its cause I switched to Honda trans oil when I normally run the rotella oil that add more protection.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by JimDirt » Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:53 pm

    As i mentioned , most people that street ride the CRF's use 1 FULL QUART of oil , not just fill it till it spills out , the capacity of the case is minimal at best in the gear cavity and its easy with the gears spinning to evacuate the oil from the cavity the gears are in , which usually leads to seized transmission gears , or broken gears/parts , its kind of a common known issue with these bikes when riding long distances in 4th or 5th gear , that is why a full Qt is more the "norm" especially for street riding , i run a full qt in both my R and my X , and have since new , i run Rotella in my X and just switched back to Amsoil in my R because i ride it much harder than the X...rather i did ride harder before i broke my wrist , (i am still working on riding again at all after 8 months of constant rehab with my wrist/hand after a really bad crash on the track last Aug , hoping for next month getting back on the bike again)........anyway , if you didn't use a full Qt , its likely this is the result , its possibly the very reason Honda went back to single oil fill for engine/trans in 2017
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • punkrockkiel
    Posts: 34
    Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:00 pm

    Re: 07 450r sm set up

    by punkrockkiel » Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:43 am

    I was actually thinking about you saying the full qt of oil all night long at work. I just switched to the Honda atf cause I thought I was having clutch issues with starting (here I just put it in gear now and rock the bike til it frees up the clutch cause the ebc heavier springs seem to glue the fibers and steels). I use to run rotella all the time and its a much thicker oil that clings better to parts and I was NOT running a full qt like you said but when I changed to the thinner Honda oil, I think that's what caused this issue....wtf, thanx Honda. now I know to run a full qt and ill be golden.
    this rebuild will take some time tho, I noticed little alum shavings in the engine oil and there looked to be . in the oil when I drained it, so I'm pulling the stroker crank and going to stock stroke crank and ditching the crf piston for a trx piston so I got the 3 rings for less oil use and better sealing. and mostly certainly switching back to tried and true rotella. not to mention the new 3rd gear and shift fork. just goes to show, there is such a thing as a better oil.

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