Click sound from suspension
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts: 1558
    Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    by Aussiecrf230 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:03 am

    A thick washer of the correct diameter with two flats ground on opposite side of the outer diameter(to allow it to be turned sideways and slipped behind bearing) works good with a puller or punch. Makes head bearing races a breeze too. Washers were 25 cents last time so I better keep a eye on the price, it might be cheaper to buy the right tool, NOT.
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:11 am

    Great idea!
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:20 pm

    Just replaced all the linkage bearings and there is still a minute amount of slop in the rear suspension. Note that it only occurs when the suspension is on a stand unloaded. The sound is definitely coming from the shock itself. When I push laterally on the spring, it is less noticeable. I'm thinking maybe the spring is the cause. I am able to rotate the spring by hand so apparently it is not as tight as it should be. The lock ring is not spinning, only the spring. This is surprising considering the lock ring is dead center of the available travel. The only logical cause I can think of is that the spring is too short. It's an Eibach 5.9kg/mm. Since it only happens when the bike is unloaded, perhaps it is okay.
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts: 1558
    Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:11 pm

    by Aussiecrf230 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:53 am

    You would still expect a small amount of preload on the spring. Is the perch at this position with the sag set correctly?
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:40 am

    Yes. With my sag set correctly, the lockring is in the center of the threaded area.

    Race sag 105mm, free sag 38mm.

    Image
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
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    JimDirt
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    Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:31 pm

    by JimDirt » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:10 pm

    can't see your pic for some reason ...... did you measure the spring (unloaded with the collar free of it) to see if it matched the length of the original spring , i have known Ebach and Race Tech springs to sometimes be shorter than OEM springs
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:18 pm

    I don't have the original spring and there is no free length measurement specified in the manual, only a preloaded min and max length. With the spring free, it measures 10.7". With the spring preloaded and my sag set, it measures 10.18". The manual says the preloaded length should not exceed 10.14", so I'm just over that. Considering my free sag is approaching 40mm, I think I need to drop a rate to 5.8kg.

    Back to the tapping/knocking noise, I've been searching the web and a lot of CRF owners are experiencing the same thing and have accepted it as being normal. People have replaced all shock bearings, linkage, swingarm, wheel, and still have a little play and a noise. One owner said in his case it was the shock twisting and the top tapping against the frame mount. I'm going to temporarily stick a wood shim in between mine and see if that resolves it.
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:37 pm

    I don't know if i would call the noise "normal" , the only "normal" knocking noise coming out of the back of the bike would be chain slap , other than that you should not have any noise that sounds like something is loose , with the exception of your rear wheel chattering when locking up the brake hard going thru braking bumps (you can encounter braking bumps on trails as well as the MX track) , that is the only time i can recall hearing anything while trail riding , i replaced my linkage bearings about 2013 and they were real bad , missing several , and that was the only time i had any noise , but the new bearings eliminated the issue

    Have you looked at the bottom of the chain slider to make sure it is not worn thru so the chain may be hitting the swingarm , like i had last year with my 02 R ?? , mine wore to the point it cut into the swingarm edge and was actually popping the bearing out , but it definitely made a noise i could not locate till i noticed the slider hanging down under the swingarm , when i looked at it closely is when i saw the wear thru the slider and in the swingarm in the same location (at the swingarm/frame pivot point) , but the chain slapping the bottom of the swingarm makes a different noise then when it slaps the top

    As for the spring free length (installed length to the collar) , it should be the exact same as the 250 R , which is (variable by year) 10.16 to 10.29 in.
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:49 am

    There is no noise when riding. It is only when fully extended on the stand and when letting it off the stand.

    From what I read, the length specified in the manual is a preloaded length, not a free length. They specify a free length for the fork spring of but not the shock. Still investigating.
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:32 am

    To verify you have the correct spring rate , you would

    1 measure your spring length
    2 measure your static/free sag , and your rider sag , if the spring length is not within the recommended boundaries in order to achieve proper sag , then you have a incorrect spring for your weight , like if you had to tighten the collar down so much that the spring length would be less than recommended , then you can't achieve proper sag without altering something else , because your preloading the spring , either too much or not enough , to allow unnecessary free movement or to introduce more preload than recommended which will throw off all clicker settings as well as cause noise (if the spring is slamming the shock to full extension because its too tight , or by excess play between spring and collar causing a "loose" noise) by having the spring too tight , but it is all of those factors , not just sag numbers that come into play determining if its correct
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:43 am

    Since my preloaded spring length "at sag" measures 10.18" and the maximum specified length in the manual is 10.14", I am too stiff. Therefore, I ordered a rate softer and that should get me in the acceptable range (9.6" to 10.14" I believe). Whether or not that resolves the tapping noise is yet to be seen.
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:21 am

    Your concern is that you get the measurements within the 100-110 mm sag range , if you can't achieve the sag numbers at the recommended spring length then , yes, the spring is incorrect rate for your weight

    So when you are manually moving the suspension up/down , even now after checking/adjusting , (i am assuming by grabbing the rear wheel) , you can't see/feel anything moving on its own in the initial stages of movement , that would indicate a bearing or something else worn in the swingarm , shock , wheel bearings , linkage , anything ??

    The noise has to be from something with slop , weather it be a bearing , bushing , or spring (are you positive the spring currently on the shock is for the Showa ?? , a KYB spring might still fit but fit poorly enough to make noise/bind , sometimes (especially from eBay sellers) they don't specify if its a KYB or Showa spring when reading the add , so you have to pay close attention .... not saying this is the case , but it is possible , as i believe KYB springs are larger in diameter slightly
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:45 am

    It's difficult to pinpoint it exactly. I need to get a second person to help so I can look while they lift. I bought the spring based on the part number listed on Eibach's website for my make/model/year, so I believe it is the correct one. I'll be pulling the shock off the bike this Friday to put on my new Factory Connection spring, so I'll be able to take a closer look.
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
  • mossman77
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:28 am

    by mossman77 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:58 pm

    New spring is on (5.8kg is the perfect rate for my weight by the way), and the tapping sound is still there. I'm going to assume it is normal amd not worry about it. Next order of business...get my nitrogen refilled because the shock shaft would not return to full extension on its own. I just had it filled last summer and replaced the bladder (OEM) at the same time. I'm thinking maybe the schrader valve is leaking. I'll go ahead and replace it. Is it okay to remove the schrader valve and let all the old nitrogen out, then refill or is there some sequence I should follow? I'm assuming I don't want to compress the shaft with the bladder empty or else it will collapse?

    By the way, there is a substantial difference now that I replaced the fork oil. I am at 9 clicks out on the compression (standard setting is 7 clicks out), and about 18 out on the rebound (14 out is standard). I tried 5 clicks out on the compression and it was way too rough, whereas prior to changing the oil, I had the compression fully hard. Just goes to show how important changing the fork oil is!
    2007 CRF250X
    2004 CRF230F (sold)
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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:05 am

    On the Nitrogen , yes just replace the valve and refill , just give it a few quick blips to get it set so your not blasting all the pressure at once (bike on the stand not on the ground so everything is fully extended), just in case the clip failed you don't want to get hurt....i would add 175 psi , not the 140+ that Honda recommends

    **could the noise be that the Nitrogen is low in the shock and its got free play internally because of the low gas ?**....check for the noise again after you re-gas the shock....

    And yes , the fresh oil makes a huge difference , and because of the design , the fork oil needs to be changed at least 1x a season if you ride in real dusty conditions , then change bushings every 2 seasons minimum , as they will contaminate the oil faster the more they wear

    And 5.8 is what i have on my R as well , i still have the 5.5 on the X , which i will change to a 5.8 before i ride again , which will be some time next year with any luck , as healing progress is really going slow , can't even hold a water bottle yet *2 months in* let alone hold onto a bike
    02 CRF450R
    06 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho

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