[fmlstewart]

I just replaced the lower inner cartridge seal on a 2004 CRF250R. I filled the cartridge (6.6oz) and pumped the damper rod until there were no air bubbles, then reinstalled the cartridge cap. When I fully compressed the damper rod, it did not fully extend. Maybe 3" short. I pulled it out fully ( it did not suck back in) and poured the excess oil out of the overflow holes. Then compressed it again. It extended a little less the second time, then I poured even more oil out. Each time I compressed it, it extended less and more oil came out when I turned it up, until I could compress it and it would'nt extend at all. I've disassembled it, refilled it, and followed the same procedure three times. Same results each time. Is this a bad floating piston seal? If so, where can I get the seal? Part #? And, has anybody done or scene a how-to on it?

[JimDirt]

Yes it sounds like the seal is bad , you can get the seal direct from any of the suspension companies , like Race Tech or Factory Connection , just ask for the Floating Piston Seal for your bike , i would personally buy 2 that way you have a spare in case the other side goes out , they are about $10 each , to replace them is fairly simple


If you have one a Electric Impact helps , but it can be done with a ratchet

Tools Needed:

32mm 6 pt socket ,13mm open end wrench , Propane Torch ,small rounded Vice Grips (i use the pointed type and ground a half circle in each jaw so it looks like a circle when the grips are closed)

Basic Procedure:

Remove Cartridge

Take note of your clicker settings

Turn the compression clicker all the way in

Turn compression adjuster all the way out counting the total clicks (i think around 23 ?) , and write down that number

Use 13mm wrench on nut inside the Pressure Spring , use 6 point 32mm socket on fork cap assembly nut , loosen lock nut just enough to break the contact so the assembly can be loosened , then take Vice Grips and gently but firmly grab the base valve assembly taking care not to get the vice grips on the shim stack (you are grabbing it at the smooth area where the 2 holes are opposed , so the holes are not in the grip , grab it tight enough so it does not slip , then using the 32mm socket/ratchet and the vice grips , loosen the assembly , it may take some force but it will break free

Unscrew the compression cap without moving the lock nut , once you remove the spring measure the distance from the end of the shaft to the lock nut , write this reading down , now the assembly will either come off on the shaft side exposing the compression needle , or the base valve side , it just depends on what loosens first , then just pull the free piston off

Take the Free Piston and remove the 2 bushings and the O-Ring , , now look on the inside of the piston , you will see a washer , remove that , then look on the top outside and you will see a C-Clip and the seal , remove the C-Clip with a real small flat screwdriver or a pick (pointed) , now you can either set the piston in a vice(gently just enough to hold it) or use your vice grips (again just enough to hold it) now take your torch and heat the outside of the piston about where the seal is , circling the outside in that area , for about 30 or so seconds , the seal should be slightly smoking , do not mega heat the piston , just enough heat to get it too hot to touch but thats it , now take a flat blade screwdriver and pry out the seal

Let the piston cool , then take a i believe 13mm deep socket (as long as it just fits the edge of the seal but still fits inside the piston) and gently and evenly tap the seal into place , MAKE SURE the seal is in upside down , with the large flat surface going in first

Put the C-Clip back in making sure its seated in the groove , then put the washer back on the inside (opposite side of the seal) , re-install the O-Ring and 2 bushings

Now take some Plumbers tape(the white tape stuff in those white and blue rolls) and wrap the threads of the shaft , wrap enough so you dont feel the sharpness of the threads , now re-install the piston slowly taking care not to tear the tape off (this is to avoid the sharp threads tearing the seal edge),then re-install the spring and the cap assembly , before tightening the lock nut , turn your compression adjuster all the way in and count the clicks all the way out , if it does not match your original reading , then move the cap slightly (1/4" or so) and count again , keep doing this till the number of clicks match , then tighten the lock nut and check again , if all is good , re-assemble your fork cap assembly into the cartridge and bleed

[fmlstewart]

Not great news, but not surprising either. More work to do. More waiting for parts. Much thanks for the detailed how to Jim.

[JimDirt]

No problem , suspension is always a work in progress , and trying to do things for the first time is a pain without help , i far from know everything , but glad to help when i can

[fmlstewart]

I ordered the 12mm damper rod seal from Synergy Seals. Just to verify, could you check this page and make sure this is the seal I need to replace? It's a 10mm ICS Piston seal.

http://shop.synergyseals.com/Showa-47mm ... R1-SWA.htm

I plan on taking both forks down and replacing all four seals. Again Jim, thanks for your help.

[fmlstewart]

I irdered the 12mm damper rod seal from Synergy Seals. Just to verify, could you check this page and make sure this is the seal I need to replace? It's a 10mm ICS Piston seal.

http://shop.synergyseals.com/Showa-47mm ... R1-SWA.htm

I plan on taking both forks down and replacing all four seals. Again Jim, thanks for your help.

[JimDirt]

Yes that is the seal

And very important , when changing the rod seal , make sure after you replace the seal , BEFORE you re-install the rod , use Teflon Tape to wrap several times around the threads on the rod to protect the seal , otherwise you could damage the seal you just installed , same goes like i mentioned before , for the Piston seal

And dont forget to remove the tape on both after you get the parts past the seal

[fmlstewart]

Copy that. I used packing tape when I did the damper rod seal, but teflon tape sounds like a beter idea. Final question...are Racetech Gold Valves worth the money?

[JimDirt]

What is worth the money is the fact that you get a pile of shims that if bought separately would cost more than the Gold Valve Kit itself (each kit **1 for forks,1 for shock** cost about $165 each), i also changed fork springs and Pressure Springs in mine , with everything my suspension is plush and stable and will take anything i can throw at it

And they have EXCELLENT customer service , so if you run into issues re-valving or dont like the way any of the pre-written setups work they can go over your specific needs and help you figure out a stack the will get you what you want , the valves themselves may give some gains but the newer OEM valves are a lot better than the older model ones which was why the Gold Valves were made , because the older ones had a lot of casting flaws that affected flow , now days , not so much , i used them and am quite happy

[fmlstewart]

Gold valves would be more easily adjustable on installation than OEM valves though, correct? As far as doing the work myself, Race Tech could give me the proper setup for installation, where as I would really need a suspension tech to fine tune OEM valves for my weight and riding style, right?

[JimDirt]

Gold valves would be more easily adjustable on installation than OEM valves though, correct? As far as doing the work myself, Race Tech could give me the proper setup for installation, where as I would really need a suspension tech to fine tune OEM valves for my weight and riding style, right?

The only "adjustments" are with the shims themselves , not the valves , think of the valves as ports , when the oil flows thru the valve the shims flex and allow fluid to continue , if the valve has castings in it , then the flow would get interrupted on its way to the shim and cause cavitation and turbulence in the oil flow

The shims themselves are what move and determine the softness/stiffness and at what point in the travel it gets stiffer or softer , the Gold valves are slightly more open and smooth so the oil flows thru it easier and without turbulence so the suspension remains consistent

As far as needing a tech , No , if you used the kit and your stock valves , there might be a slight difference in stiffness so maybe you would need to add or remove 1 or 2 more shims in a given spot to stiffen or soften from what the chart shows , and you would have to experiment with that since its all subject to rider feel , so what works for you , will usually not work for someone else riding the same bike under the same conditions , its ALL subject to variables , but once you tear a fork apart to re-valve or when you take it apart to change the setup , you can almost do it in your sleep to change or adjust things , i have sat at the track and re-valved my forks just using the box on my trailer as a workbench and a few paper towels , i can adjust the valving in about a half hour for both forks


Hope that clarified things some

[fmlstewart]

So theoretically, if I knew which shim combination and spring rate I needed for my weight and riding style, all I would need would be the shims and a little time to ride, test, adjust, and repeat, and I could make the OEM valves better. Not perfect, but pretty good. But where could one find a good starting point? Like a chart for Showa fork tuning shim combinations? Hhhmmm. I wonder...

[JimDirt]

Dont really want to redirect you to another Forum , but the guy that wrote this (i have talked to him several times on the phone as he lives in Idaho above me a 100 or so miles) ,and has got re-valving using stock parts down , and either the posts can guide you thru about anything you can think of , or he can directly with a Private Message (theDogger)

Go here to look , its a LOT of reading (90 pages , and 1791 posts)but it will get you started , it is where i started getting a grasp on this stuff
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/327668 ... -re-valve/

[JimDirt]

And just so you know , this is the CRF valving

(my bike)

[fmlstewart]

Yeah I've been reading through his posts already. I feel like I'm looking for a wedding ring in the bottom of a muddy river with a mild current...deep, dark, scary, exhausting, but I want that freakin' ring because a new one freakin' expensive!

This bike is just a project bike for trail riding. Little improvements over time. Learn as I go. I won't hesitate to tear into most things but, transmissions and suspensions make me nervous. Thanks for your help.