[mossman77]

Do the "wear rings" typically need to be replaced as well (outside of fork tube just above dust seal)? The user manual says to check them and if they are less than 1.5mm or flat against the fork to replace them.

[JimDirt]

I have never seen the need to replace them , what they are for , is for the fork guards to not rub on the actual tube , that's really it , so if they are not worn thru , i would not worry about them unless they happen to come in a kit you get and you want to replace them

[mossman77]

First fork had about 335 ml in it, so about 15 ml below the standard oil capacity listed in the manual. This is after draining for a little over an hour. 320 ml in the pan, added 10 ml for residual oil in the tube, and 5 ml for residual in the pan.

Just noticed that the recommended oil level for the standard spring (0.42kg) is less than the optional stiffer AND softer spring. I would have expected the stiffer to use less and the softer to use more, but they both use more. Why is this?

[JimDirt]

It's only 3cc(cm same thing) more for stiffer springs and 5cc for softer springs , i am guessing to keep the ride the same with different rate springs

The less oil the more air ,so the stiffer the ride is at the end of the stroke (air wont compress) , the more oil the less air , the softer the ride is at the end of the stroke , no matter what the book says , that is the way it works , more oil is softer than less oil (to a point) , and the main use of the oil in the outer chamber is for lubrication , as well as dampening , at least that is the way i understand it , that is why there is such a variance from minimum to maximum oil volume (303-404) , the "standard" volume is right in the middle of Min and Max ,so it kind of gives a , not too soft , not too stiff overall , for most riders

As a note i usually run 365cc in both my bikes with 0.52 springs and me 210-215 (my weight without gear depending on the day)

I also run a softer Pressure Spring (the little spring in the inner chamber where the valving is) , for the 450's stock is 1.9 in the X and 2.1 in the R, i run a 1.76 in both bikes , which takes away the initial hits , without making the front too soft , like if i were to run a softer main spring to take away the initial hits , which would actually make the hits harder and more abusive , stiffer is softer , but softer is softer ,just like with the oil , more is less and less is more , lol

[mossman77]

I forgot to mention that the old oil has quite a bit of metal particles in it. Would it be a good idea to clean and/or wipe down the fork tubes with brake parts cleaner when I have everything disassembled?

[JimDirt]

Yes , or you can get a grease cleaner , like Awesome , or Simple Green , and spray them down real good inside and out , then take the hose , or better yet a pressure washer to them (Car Wash) , the metal dust/residue is from the bushings wearing

I have a Harbor Freight Solvent Tank , which is what i clean all my bike parts in , i use Mineral Spirits , but you can fill them with Simple Green or equivalent if you don't want any mineral or solvent odor

If you don't have a Parts Washer , then you can buy a cheap kitchen trash can and fill it with the Simple Green , etc , and just use a parts brush for cleaning all the small stuff and a rag with a broom handle or something to shove the rag thru the tubes to clean inside of them

Then blow everything down with air to remove all the residue and detergent , and a clean towel or the blue paper towels you get at Wal-Mart in the Auto section , to wipe everything down

[mossman77]

I have simple green so I'll use that. Is it okay to soak everything, including the cartridges, pistons,etc, or just the tubes?

Just got everything apart. A couple questions: after removing the pistons and pouring out the fluid, I pumped the piston rod back and forth to expel the remaining oil inside the piston chamber. The piston rods don't move in and out smoothly, they are sticking in a few places. Considering the rods don't have as much travel when everything is installed, I'm hoping this is okay. Second question is I notice there are two bushings on the piston similar to those on the inner tube. Should I replace these bushings as well? I didn't order them so it would set me back until next weekend if I did. Not a big if need be.

[JimDirt]

Sorry for not replying last night , i did not get back online after i last visited

You can soak everything , but make sure to blow the valving assembly off real well , and make sure its dry , before re-assembling , also , if your going to soak the inner cartridge assembly , make sure to remove the rod , as there is a valving stack on the end of it as well

But before removing it , you have to measure where the adjuster nut is , so you can get it close when re-installing , also , pull it out carefully so you don't damage the seal

Same goes with re-assembly , again , you can soak everything to do with the inner chamber , just make sure you get all the moisture off/out of it before re-assembly , and coat it with a little of the fork oil so any lint or other debris that can affect the valving operation is gone (basically you need to be sure that the valving stack is clean so nothing can get between any shims which would affect the valving working properly)

If your worried about messing with completely dis-assembling the inner chamber , then just mainly do the outer tubes (the chrome and gold tubes) , and (if your re-installing them) the springs

The Free Piston bushings should not need replacement , you should be able to visually see if they are worn , they should be ok , and usually if the oil in the inner chamber was clean , then that is a sign that the bushings are not worn , it is usually only the outer bushings that wear and that is what contaminates the oil , along with dirt getting past the fork seals , so you should be able to get everything back together today

Again , sorry i did not reply last night , so you could have got it back together last night , but you should have it back together and be riding today

[mossman77]

No worries. I'm taking my time with it. Can't ride yet anyway (track/trails are still to messy). Just to be we're talking about the same parts, the inner cartridge is the assembly with the damper rod that the large spring wraps around (#10 in parts fiche) and the piston assembly is the unit housed inside correct (#15)? In other words, when you say "valving assembly" you're talking about #15 right? Also known as "free piston"? And when you say "cartridge" you're referring to #10?

Think I'll just keep it simple and only soak the inner and outer tubes and springs, and give the inner cartridge and free piston a good wipe down with a rag soaked in brake parts cleaner.

[JimDirt]

Yes , except the Free Piston is attached to the Fork Cap Assembly (they are calling it the Bolt Assembly , don't know why), which is where the valving is as well as the Free Piston , so correct part number , incorrect name , but yes...

And be careful with the brake cleaner , you want the O-Rings to be oiled before putting them in and you don't want them to swell , as that will tear them up , you can use the cleaner on the valving , but remove the O-Ring on the main thread area as well as the Free Piston before spraying , then you can put them back on before assembly , just don't install with them dry

Make sure when bleeding the assembly (the cartridge , which you use the rod to pump the air out) , that you look for any bubbles , and keep doing it till ALL the bubbles are gone before inserting the assembly and bleeding it , when assembling , pull the rod all the way out before inserting the assembly , and after you get it inserted and snugged down by hand , pump the rod slowly like the manual says , IF , when you do this , the rod sucks back in after pumping , then the Free Piston Seal is bad and will need to be replaced before going any further , it should when pumping , extend all the way on its own when you let go of it , it may suck back in if you dont have enough oil (the 6 or so ounces), also , so if it does , pull the assembly back out , add a little oil , and try again , if it does it the next time and your sure you have enough oil , then the seal is bad

Don't forget to do this procedure over your drain pan , or you will have oil all over the floor

[mossman77]

And why is it recommended to back the compression and rebound clickers out prior to disassembling/reassembling? Everyone says to do it but no one says why.

[JimDirt]

Because the needle/clicker can get its tip damaged if its not backed off when tightening , or sometimes loosening

the Compression adjuster/clicker is this long needle in the picture , so if its bottomed out it can deform it and ruin it...make sense ??

[mossman77]

I think so. I failed to back out the rebound clickers when disassembling. They were at the middle setting. Hopefully I didn't damage anything.

[JimDirt]

If its in the middle you should be ok , but it is always best to
(1) , Count your turns IN before tearing down suspension
(2)Then click them out all the way
, this goes for compression AND rebound on the fork and shock (if tearing down the shock)
(3) Then ...... remove parts .... if you read the manual , it also tells you to do this

LOL i have been checking the forum when the commercials come on for SX

[mossman77]

Just installed one of the piston assemblies. The damper rod doesn't extend fully. The fully extended length is 12-7/8" and it is extending to 11-5/8". Do I need to bleed it again? I thought I was pretty methodical about it, and a good amount of excess fluid came out of the bleed holes so I thought everything was good. Does it sound like there is some air trapped in there? Is the rod really supposed to extend completely? Some online say 95% is typical (I'm at 90%).

I bled it again and it still does not extend fully. A good amount of oil came out like the first time, which tells me I'm putting enough in. I'm following the procedure in the manual exactly. This time, when compressing and letting the rod go horizontally, it extends to 11-1/4". If I do it vertically, it extends to 12". I wonder if maybe I'm pushing air inside the chamber when inserting the piston assembly. There's quite a bit of gurgling when pushing it in. Perhaps I should push the piston in partially at first and let it sit for a minute to allow the valves to fill up. I'll give it another shot tomorrow evening.

By the way, I've been filling the chamber to about 1-3/4" above the piston's seating surface (per the manual). Should I try filling it up to just below the bleed holes to ensure no air gets forced in there? Also, when I pull the rod to the fully extended position, it does NOT suck back in.