I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles
  • CRF2112
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    I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by CRF2112 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:25 pm

    First off, hello... It's my first post and I feel bad that I'm asking for help as my first interaction. I bought a 06 450x for a pretty good deal. It needed some work, but nothing too bad. I noticed right away that the fork seals were bad and so I bought a new seal set. I'd never done inverted forks before, but I rebuilt KLR forks a few times with great success. After watching videos several times I finally tackled the job. I got all the way to the end, where I torqued down the center bolt. I mistook the numbers (read the wrong paragraph) and somehow saw 51ft pounds. Well, you can guess that it was too much. It stripped the center bolt. Now I'm unable to remove the center bolt. Does anyone have any tips or tricks to get that off without messing everything up? I really don't want to spend $200 for the damper assembly.
    Thanks a ton!
  • Back2-2
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by Back2-2 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:24 pm

    That don't sound good.... ](*,) Our resident suspension guru Jim should chime in pretty quick and give you some input.
    Off hand nothing comes to mind but there is always a will and a way. Hang in there- ;)
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Leardriver
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by Leardriver » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:21 pm

    What do you mean by the center bolt? The one on the bottom, or the top of the damper assembly?
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    JimDirt
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by JimDirt » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:34 pm

    Welcome to the site !! \:D/

    As Leardriver mentioned , what "center bolt" are you referring to ?? , i am guessing either the aluminum Top Clamp bolt that holds the top clamp down and is threaded to the Steering Stem ..... Otherwise as Leardriver mentioned , the Rebound Adjuster on the bottom of the fork tube itself .... More info is needed to hopefully remedy this situation you got yourself into

    If it is the Top Center bolt , and you did not strip the Steering Stem [-oo , then you can try to split it by using a Dremel and/or hacksaw , and cut one side almost thru (99% so you don't cut the Stem or damage the Stem threads) , then take a wedged chisel and tap on it to spread it and it should come right off ... then just buy a new nut and your back in business

    If its the Rebound Adjuster , then its going to be tough , but you could try to remove the seals and snap rings , by first removing the top Fork Cap Assembly (where the compression adjuster is) and draining the oil , and try to push the fork into itself , then trying to unscrew it while applying pressure to the Rebound Adjuster with a small prybar or screwdriver to hold pressure under it while unscrewing , no guarantee , but its worth a shot 8-[

    If it does not come out (if its the Rebound Adjuster) you may have to send your fork into a Suspension shop so they can remove the fork Lug (where the axle goes) and clamp the Rebound Rod and try to possibly remove it that way by unscrewing the Rebound Rod and pulling it apart that way , then they can remove the Fork Lug to have complete access to the Rebound Adjuster , if its not repairable then they would have to remove the Fork Lug and replace it and the Rebound Adjuster
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  • Back2-2
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by Back2-2 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:29 am

    The way I read into his problem is that the fork center bolt stripped out on the end of the damper rod. Maybe I'm wrong but that is way I understood the description.

    If it is what i believe it to be - the center bolt will have to be very meticulously cut and removed from the lower fork tube. It will be difficult and vert tedious to remove. If the tube/slider is the stripped part that makes it a much bigger issue and probably have to be replaced. Possible to have keensert -maybe. If it is the center bolt that gave up and enough caution was used to cut it out to not damage the tube / slider then that is an easy replacement. The center bolt is aluminum and fine thread. Hopefully that is what stripped.

    Something just came to mind. If I am correct in what the described problem is - There is a EDM process that a machine shop can do by electrically cutting out the center bolt from the tube. It might be worth looking into over trying to cut it out yourself. Depends on your skill and what tools you have available. Just food for thought.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • CRF2112
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by CRF2112 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:20 pm

    Thanks for all the replies. The latter is correct. It's the center bolt with clickers on the bottom of the fork. I already anticipated that it might be almost impossible to remove 'normally'... so I took a diamond blade and started cutting into one side, thinking I could get all the way down to the damper threads, then crack the bolt off. I started, but stopped until I asked for advice on this forum. :) So back to the grinder I go. I shrink wrapped the entire area and have only the bolt exposed. I will flush and change the oil again once I'm done. I'm hoping it's the threads on the soft aluminum bolt that's stripped. The replacement part is sold only as an assembly and is over $200. The other option is to buy a whole other fork off the auction site, and grab the part I need. I'll let you all know how it turns out.
    Thanks again for the insight.
  • Leardriver
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by Leardriver » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:36 pm

    The bottom bolt and clicker assembly, P/N 51440-KRN-711, can be had for $16.12
    The aluminum adjust rod, P/N 51437-K23-J41, is $5.81
    I think the rod is soft enough that it will strip out before you can damage the top damper assembly.

    Look those up and see if we are talking about the same thing.
  • Back2-2
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by Back2-2 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:40 pm

    It is either going to be the threads on the center bolt itself that stripped or the fork slider threads and that's bad. One of those two items gave up. Don't forget you can have a machine shop give you an estimate for EDM'ing that out if it gets to tough.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
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    JimDirt
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by JimDirt » Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:17 am

    The Rebound Adjuster that i mentioned IS the "center bolt" you are referring to (which Leardriver is correct on the prices), i do not think grinding it out will work , as you will not be able to go deep enough into it to split it or really get to the threads without compromising the fork Lug , although you could try grinding the head off it and tapping it out with a punch into the fork leg , then either see if you can find a Helicoil to fit , or , cutting off the exposed part and see if you can maybe drill it out with progressively larger bits , till you get close to the threads , then maybe you can tap it inward to itself collapsing the threads with a punch , this will not guarantee the threads in the Fork Lug will remain intact ,and you would have to completely disassemble the fork to keep contaminants out of the insides , or you might as i suggested , just send the lower leg to a Suspension Shop , like Race Tech , and have them remove and replace the Lug , which should be cheaper than getting a used fork off eBay , which i believe would be your best option at this point , since both the Rebound Adjuster and the fork Lug are aluminum and i would suspect both threads are compromised if its just spinning , which means either hoping for a Helicoil fix or replacing both parts as mentioned

    I personally use a 1/2" Electric Impact gun when removing/replacing the Rebound Adjuster every time i service forks and have never come close to stripping it out ( i do not recommend this method for everyone), but as soon as it seats , i stop , and i can still remove it with a normal socket after using the impact ,but i am not sitting there letting the Impact hammer on it either , as soon as it seats i stop , but i have been doing that for a while and have a feel for it , but i really never torque the Fork Cap Assembly (the top compression setup) or the Rebound Adjuster , i just snug them down so to speak and never have leaks , the only parts i actually torque on the forks are the fork clamp/triple clamp bolts , everything else i go by feel by snugging down by hand and have never had any issues including the compression stack nut
    2020 CRF450R
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • CRF2112
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by CRF2112 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:14 pm

    Thanks again for the replies. I have good news, and not so good news. The center bolt was removed by a local motorcycle shop. It cost me $70. The bad news is that all in all I think I will still need to replace the entire inner assembly. I think he may have taken me for a ride. When I dropped off the fork I also gave them a spare center bolt to put on when they got the other one out.
    When I picked it up the new center bolt was on and there seemed to be no damage anywhere. But his explanation made no sense. I asked what threads were stripped. He said none, and that "you got lucky!" That doesn't explain why it was stuck and just kept spinning. I told him I was going to take it apart when I got home to flush it out in case some ground aluminum made its way in there. He said it was not necessary and that I could just add oil from the bottom.
    Sure enough, I get it home, try to remove the center bolt, it won't come off. As I pushed the damping rod through, I could tell it was a little scratched up. I added some oil from the top, and closed her up. It will be fine for now
    Live and learn.
    Thanks again
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    JimDirt
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by JimDirt » Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:27 pm

    It sounds like you spent $70 for a $10 result :( , what i would do is call someone "reputable" like Race Tech , and ask them how much to Remove the bad Lug , and Replace it with a "used" one (they should have some laying around) , if the Rebound Rod is scratched up , then you should replace it as well at the same time , you will NOT have to replace the entire inner cartridge , just the rod itself , and it can be used as well , as long as its not scratched , again , Race Tech can do this as well , or you can do it , i can walk you thru removing and swapping parts if you like , its not that hard to do , just a few tricks to keep from damaging the Cartridge Seal when removing and reinstalling

    I feel bad for you , a friend of mine had his suspension on his 02 KTM 520XC done in a "shady" shop and they destroyed his just like yours is , and they put it back together and never told him they ruined it , i walked him thru replacing it , and he is good to go (hhis WP fork does not screw into the Lug like Showa does , it screws into the cartridge itself and is held in place by the pressure of the spring along with a O-Ring , but the nut itself was destroyed to the point when he went to change oil , the Adjuster pulled right thru into the inside of the fork , he was pissed .....

    I know the initial damage was your mistake , but that does not mean a shop should take advantage of your delima and do shoddy work .... , hopefully it gets you thru the riding season without leaking , then you will have time to either find another fork lower leg (you find them from time to time on ebay , a 05-08 450R or a 04-12 250R or 05-current 250X should fit as well along with 05-current 450X) , if its a complete fork , then the R's will have stiffer outer tubes (the gold larger tube) but the rest should interchange and then just swap to your springs and Cartridge for the matching valving and you will be good to go ....... or get yours repaired as i mentioned ;)
    2020 CRF450R
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • CRF2112
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:13 am

    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by CRF2112 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:48 pm

    I tried Race Tech... couldn't get in touch with anyone there. Waited on hold for 10 minutes, then it went to VM. I'll have to try again when I can. I actually took the rod out of the other fork just to clean it up a bit. I wrapped the threads upon re-entry so not to rip the seal. I was thinking I would have to replace the whole inner cartridge because everyone I've called so far said they don't sell the rod. But I do have a good feeling about RT, if they answer. :)
    Thank you again for your generous input. This is really a great site!
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    JimDirt
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by JimDirt » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:09 pm

    I tried Race Tech... couldn't get in touch with anyone there. Waited on hold for 10 minutes, then it went to VM. I'll have to try again when I can. I actually took the rod out of the other fork just to clean it up a bit. I wrapped the threads upon re-entry so not to rip the seal. I was thinking I would have to replace the whole inner cartridge because everyone I've called so far said they don't sell the rod. But I do have a good feeling about RT, if they answer. :)
    Thank you again for your generous input. This is really a great site!
    When did you try to call them ?? , i usually get right thru in a few rings (Mon-Fri) They are in California , so make sure your calling at their time zone hours (Pacific time zone) , not sure where you are located , so time zone may be a factor on contacting them and getting a actual person.............. ;)
    2020 CRF450R
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • CRF2112
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    Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:13 am

    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by CRF2112 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:13 am

    I called at about 1:30. I'm in California as well. Is it rider support that you call? That's the option I chose.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: I screwed up... BAD! Fork center bolt troubles

    by JimDirt » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:51 am

    I just call the 1-(951)-279-6655 number (basically Tech Support number) , usually get a answer within a few rings , unless its lunch time or a Holiday or on the weekend , then i get the recording .... I have called in the mornings after 9 (their/your time) and usually Sales answers and usually someone will be on the phone right up till closing time , then you can either stick with them , or ask for Tech Support (usually Louie has the most knowledge) , or i contact Mike Crow who is in Texas , he has helped me out with some valving situations where i am stuck on what to change to fix a certain issue (like when i did a Ken Roczen to my wrist in 2016 a few days before my 57th B-Day about 5 months before he did his injury *almost identical injury to the same hand/wrist* , so i had to have some special valving setups so i could hold on to the bars till i got some strength back in my hand/wrist but still have the forks up in the stroke for a rough track), i usually Email him if its a real perplexing valving issue and he replies usually the same or next day

    But , I have always had good luck with contacting them directly at the above number and talking to someone in support , and parts getting shipped quickly from them , sometimes if i just need a shim or 2 , they just ship them to me thru U.S. Mail at no charge right to my house mailbox within a few days , about the only other places i deal with is Suspension Direct , or once in a while Factory Connection , but mainly , i have had the best luck with Race Tech , and they have by far had the best Tech Support of any suspension company i have personally dealt with .......
    2020 CRF450R
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    Weiser , Idaho

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