[DaxxRuckus]

Hi everyone,

I've got an interesting situation that has left me scratching my head at this point...

I'm trying to sort out starting and electrical issues with this 05 X that I recently picked up. I just finished a complete top end rebuild, new piston, stainless steel valves, and complete carb cleanout, and it runs great (it will kickstart - although hard to kickstart, runs great once its going - so I'm positive this isn't a valves/engine related issue) I'm having problems with the electrical system reliably starting the bike.

When I first got the bike, the starter was dead, so I pulled it and replaced the brushes. Tested it on a car battery, and it spins freely and works properly. Put it back in the bike, and got a brand new battery. The starter worked, although seemed to be cranking slowly.

Then just did the top end, and took it out for my first desert ride on it this weekend. When I got to the desert, it started with the electric start (although cranking slowly), but the engine ran great. Rode for an hour, then shut the bike off to rest. When I went to start it, the battery was dead. This led to me going through the electrical charging system when I got home, and found out that the regulator was completely dead.

Just replaced it with a brand new Baja Designs regulator tonight, and another brand new, fully charged battery. I hit the starter with my fingers crossed. It cranked (VERY SLOWLY for a new, full battery), but then fired up. I notice immediately that the headlight is not working. The engine runs fine. I shut the bike off. Then try to start it again. It cranks veeeerrrryyyy slow, then will barely crank at all. Will not hardly turn the engine over at all.

I took a video of it. This is the second try starting it on a brand new battery, charged on the battery tender all night. It will barely crank.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=hJ-TbOnmMsU

This is the second new battery that will barely crank in the bike! I even tried my other new battery, same thing (it is fully charged too).

WHAT IS GOING ON?!

In short:

-Starter rebuilt and tested, working fine out of the bike
-Brand new regulator installed (old one completely dead)
-Headlight suddenly not working when running (noticed this on first start after new regulator)

I am at my wits end. Was thinking about replacing the stator too, but tested everything with a volt meter and the stator checked out - only found that the reg was dead. I cannot figure out why this thing won't start reliably!

Any help is totally appreciated.

Thanks!

[ibleedgreen]

I have an 05 as well and have a similar problem. The thing just cranks over slow.
I rebuilt the top end, cranked it over before putting everything back together and it spun fast. Put the head cover on and the gas tank went to fire it up and it turned over slow. WTF.... This happened a number of times as I was trying to get the adjuster correct. But the bottom line is for me it starts. Doesn't like the kick starter but it starts with the slow starter.
I've rebuilt the starter, checked the wiring, new battery. It's just slow, but it starts.
Just my opinion but I think your headlight is another issue. Start with the bulb. Good luck.

[Aussiecrf230]

Is the decomp gap adjusted properly?

A free spin test on a starter doesn't mean it works under load. Did you have it tested to see if it can actually turn over the load it suppose too.

Assume all connections are good.
Do you have one of those cheap inductive current meter?
I have one of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Current-Indi ... 271wt_1091

Ken,
Surprised I didn't find one here, did look, apologies if missed it. Was the best $15 I ever spent on a tool.

Best way to identify if a battery is supplying the current required and it is still a starter issue.

[gal8x]

I notice immediately that the headlight is not working.

The regulator, battery, starter & light share one stator winding. On a separate winding the ICM runs the engine. If the engine runs then your ICM and coil plug & IPG (ignition pulse generator. Also part of the stator) are good.
You have issues with your charging circuit. Try to nail it down before you start replacing new parts with new.
If you have a VOM and a service manual you can find the cause.
You can simply test the stator with an ohm meter. I don’t have a service manual open so I cant give you the #s
Hope this helps.

[DaxxRuckus]

I do have a volt meter and the service manual, and I've read through everything but still not sure what to test to figure this out. It's driving me crazy.

The stator has already been tested and confirmed working properly.

I'm wondering if this is a more starter related issue? Since we verified that the regulator was dead, and that is replaced. so the charging system might be fine now. It's just that the headlight is now dead, and the bike will barely crank to start.

[JimDirt]

The bike being barely able to start (after replacing battery) **you did replace it with the correct battery right , a YTZ7S** , then i would be looking at the adjustment of the Auto-Decompressor like Aussiecrf230 had mentioned , if it is even 1 or 2 mm off it will make a huge difference in how the engine turns over (because it will make the compression at starting higher so it will be harder to turn over with the starter as well as really hard to kick start)

The headlight you need to see if there is voltage on any of the wires WHILE the bike is running , so if you unplug the wires to the light itself and check the Blue and White wire for power there should be power while the engine is running only , the Green wire is the ground , make sure you have a good ground when checking to assure you are getting a complete circuit , if you have power then the bulb is most likely blown and if the regulator went bad this might have blown the bulb

[gal8x]

First find out why the light is not working. Bad bulb, bad wire, bad ground? No power?

The stator charge coil (yellow wire and white wire) is grounded internally ( bolted on the inside of the case).
The yellow wire feeds the regulator and changes color to blue on its way to the light. The white also feeds the regulator. Disconnect them both and you should have some resistance to ground 8 to 30 ohms. If it is open or a dead short then the stator is bad or not grounded.

Now back to the starter. I too have an 05 450x and at times my starter starts slow, acts like a dead battery etc… I just stop and bump the starter again, it always starts. I don’t know why it does this but it only happens occasionally so I have not looked in to it. If you have replaced the brushes then I would reexamine the starter, it turns freely, and the electrical connections are good etc…

Is the decomp gap adjusted properly?

[DaxxRuckus]

I figured out the headlight issue - it was the bulb burnt out from running the bike with the regulator unplugged when we were testing stator and reg. This regulator works fine powering the headlight.

I think I have narrowed it down to a starter issue. I have tested everything, thought it might be a bad ground or crappy negative cable. Tested all that and it checks out. I just hooked up the bike to my truck battery and tried starting it, and same thing. So at this point, the charging system checks out, it's just a starting issue. I did replace the brushes on the starter and tested it out of the bike off a car battery and it spins freely without a load on it. But I'm now thinking it is still a problem with the starter being worn out and can't turn when it's in the bike.

I'm looking around locally for someone with an X that I can borrow a working starter from to test it before I buy a new one.

[JimDirt]

Have you re-checked the Auto Decompressor gap like we mentioned ?? , this will make the engine crank over slower if it is even slightly out of spec, it needs to be eliminated first

[DaxxRuckus]

Yep the auto-decompression is set to spec. I am betting on a starter issue at this point. Now to find one I can test with...

[JimDirt]

When you changed brushes , did you spin it by hand to see if it seemed to bind at all ?? , i know you hooked it up to a battery , but it can still be bound up and spin with a battery , so spinning it by hand will give a confirmation that the motor is not binding up

[DaxxRuckus]

Hi JimDirt,

yep 100% checked it when I put new brushes in. It spun freely by hand and when hooked up to a battery.

[JimDirt]

Well unless the battery does not have enough CCA , then its narrowing it down to the starter being weak , unless the one way bearing (one way starter clutch)is binding up

You said you hooked a car battery directly to the starter when it was out , did you try hooking the bike battery to it while it was out to see if it spun the same ?? , (which is why i mentioned about the CCA of the battery) , the bike battery will have less CCA than the car battery so the car battery will spin the starter faster no matter what ,even if it was too dead to start a car

You might want to try the bike battery in that test and see if you get the same easy fast spin results

I dont know what brand battery you got , but if its a cheaper brand (other than a Yuasa or other major brand top quality ($80-$100 price range)) it might be contributing to the starter dragging

Once my battery went bad , it would not start the bike hardly at all , i got a cheap Wal-Mart battery and it would not start it any better than my bad battery , so i spent the money and got a Shorai and my bike has never started as easily , so dont rule out the battery if its not top of the line , these bikes draw a lot of amps to start , and if the regulator went bad it could have damaged the battery as well as the starter , in addition to blowing the headlight like it did

[DaxxRuckus]

Hi all,

just wanted to follow up on the solution to everything. Since the bike was still able to kick start just fine, I wasn't really sold on the problem being the auto decomp. I was leaning toward the starter. I looked around locally to borrow one from someone with a working starter to test with, but couldn't find one so just ended up buying a brand new OEM starter from the only shop in so cal that had one in stock. Picked it up in Temecula yesterday and installed it last night.

The bike now starts instantly when I hit the button! It was the starter all along! Even though I replaced the brushes in the original starter, it still was worn out and couldn't start the engine.

Went riding today, and aside from some brake issues and random leaks to take care of, things are working fine!

Thank you all for all of your help and suggestions!!!!

[JimDirt]

Glad you found the issue , even though it was a hassle to troubleshoot !