UT National
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    riddler9
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    UT National

    by riddler9 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:23 pm

    Congratulations Tomac. Was a great race.

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    by dlee » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:32 am

    Dude is hot right now!
    I didn't vote for him


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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:46 am

    He was on fire ! , though i was hoping Kenny would have been more of a fight for him , but i like them both , and he earned it !

    Only bad thing about that race was a lot of the field in both classes dropped out , 450 Moto 2 there was only around 25 riders left at the end , never seen a Nat with that many casualties , riders just pulled off and gave up , Malcolm Stewart said "he hopes they lock the gates and never open them again !"

    I guess the dirt was the issue not the layout or facility , a lot of riders hated the dirt and said it was about the worst they had ridden , several called it like riding on the surface of the moon , it didn't look that bad on TV , but i was not the one riding on it so i take their word for it
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    by crfsonly » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:21 pm

    Tomac is on rails right now. Excited to see what he can do on the big bike this coming year.
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    riddler9
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    by riddler9 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:16 am

    JimDirt wrote:He was on fire ! , though i was hoping Kenny would have been more of a fight for him , but i like them both , and he earned it !

    Only bad thing about that race was a lot of the field in both classes dropped out , 450 Moto 2 there was only around 25 riders left at the end , never seen a Nat with that many casualties , riders just pulled off and gave up , Malcolm Stewart said "he hopes they lock the gates and never open them again !"

    I guess the dirt was the issue not the layout or facility , a lot of riders hated the dirt and said it was about the worst they had ridden , several called it like riding on the surface of the moon , it didn't look that bad on TV , but i was not the one riding on it so i take their word for it


    20 minutes into the first moto and 15 into the second, fitness definitely became a factor. It was very easy to see which riders were just logging laps until the race was over - essentially just on autopilot because bodies were taxed.

    Utah dirt, well, sucks. It was my one and only concern about the announcement to build a track, especially in Tooele County. The track is 2.5 miles from my house as the crow flies, so between that and doing track maintenance for BMX for a couple of year I have some darn good experience with it. It is just the nastiest clay every. Its basic nature is extreme hard pack, talking concrete hard. Once you ride on it the dust is instance. Continuous ridding/walking/tilling/whatever without adding moisture just creates a fine power that closely resembles talcum power - seriously freaky stuff. If you add water you get something that is slicker than ice. So bad that when it rains we just avoid the field until it dries, and prepare for a good laugh whenever we hear a bike out behind the house. It is un-rideable.

    The videos of Reed practicing around the time of the Utah SX race show the native Utah clay on the track. A continuous dust trail as he rides, but you get good traction until it is all carved up. MMP reports on there FB page that after taking the advice of 'some Utah Pro riders' they added topsoil. About the dumbest thing ever. As I mentioned, the native dirt is like ice when wet. So these monkeys added topsoil (looks like maybe a foot), and wet down the topsoil. So now you have a moving track surface (top soil sliding on top of the native clay). Totally bonehead move. The only way to really fix the track is to pay some farmer for his prime dirt and replace the top 3-4 feet of the entire track. The next best thing would be to go back to the native soil and treat the heck out of it with a soil stabilizer to control the dust. Problem with soil stabilizers is it just keeps the concrete feel.

    I know they have a multi-year contract, and I love the idea of a national so close to my house. But, they need to fix the track.
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    by JimDirt » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:08 am

    I am surprised they did not use the track that is just outside Magna , right off the highway (201 ?) where the drag strip is , i used to go by it when i was racing RC cars at the April Fools Race at the indoor Magna track

    Anyway with clay i would actually think a sand/bark/clay mix would be better , it will hold the moisture and the sand will keep the track surface from hard packing and becoming slick because of the grains of the sand acting as a traction aid by breaking up the clay but the bark will absorb the water so it stays moist but not muddy as it will wick the water from the clay, it needs to be tilled as far as the disk will go , then run a Cultipacker over it

    Water the crap out of it the night before and it should be good for the majority of the next day , and will get better by the end of the day after everyone has ripped thru it , the track i used to maintain we did this and it was a clay track , it was a mess when it was saturated , and powder when it was dry (i guess the same complaint about that place) , until the sand/bark mix , then it was sweet to ride ,we disked and cultipacked everything but the jump ramps , that is what i would do if it were my track

    But then again if it were my track i would have looked for a more natural location rather than a 100% man made track , but i'm old so i prefer the older style tracks , some of the tracks around here are under watered and hard packed/marbles wannabe SX tracks with about a 1 minute lap time and no fun to ride
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    by riddler9 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:06 pm

    The track you are talking about is attached to Rocky Mountain Raceway, which is owned by Young Automotive Group. It is a very small track with facility issues (parking, amenities, roadway access). NSL would have been a good option but they chopped it out of the budget this year. Several other options in the state (Ogden, Delta, etc.) including the Deseret Peak track that is on the South property line of the MMP complex, but I am positive it all came down to marketing. MMP had just lost the World Superbike races (contract went back to Laguna Seca) and UT sporting and tourism likely needed to recoup from loosing the SX series. In reality the MMP facility is amazing, but they are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I get the whole natural track vs. man made, but the reality is the national tracks bring in outside dirt for repairs and all have man made sections. What this track does not have is the significant elevation changes. Still, when you are at the track it is obvious that it is far from a SX track. The aerial photos and track map do not do it justice.

    As I mentioned in my earlier post, I am and will remained concerned about the dirt. Regardless of the track in UT, the dirt is not up handling the type of abuse that a national brings in. MMP has the facility and ticket sales, they just need to make it safe for the riders.

    FWIW, I did read some feeds where people were complaining that fans could not be by the track - these posts came from people that were not at the track. As you can see from my photos, the separation on a good portion of the outer perimeter (less sponsor space, tv, etc.) was separated by the water truck path. People that were in the stands and box seats were there by choice, likely to evade the sun and crowds on the fence lines (wimps). The facility would to better to move the mechanic area to the infield, and oust the dealer and sponsor hospitality, but that all goes back to the dollar.
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    JimDirt
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    by JimDirt » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:31 pm

    When looking at Google Earth , is the Deseret Peak track , the one in the lower left corner under the dirt oval ??

    I see 5 MX type tracks in that entire facility but Google Earth image was taken 12/31/2005 , so i am guessing none of them are the current Nat track
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    by riddler9 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:04 pm

    left of the oval you will see a green roof building, parking lot, then the track. The road to the north of both is the divider between the MMP and Deseret Peak (DP)complexes. The DP track was recently shut down by the county but was picked up by an outside party and renamed "Throttle 215 MX Park"

    Couple of the smaller tracks are pee-wee's. Track to the south of the parking lot is BMX.

    The photo of MMP is way out of date. They now have sumo, stadium truck, 1 other MX, and reportedly (yet to be verified) a 7 mile desert race course. The national track is imbedded on the East road course and crosses the pavement in several spots. I think the total length of the national is 1.3 miles.
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    by JimDirt » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:23 pm

    So its within the LARGE road course ?? , not the Supermoto course at the top and its not the MX track to the left of the green roof below the road correct ??

    Just trying to get a feel for the placement ,*wish GE had updated pics* since its close enough to me that i may go there next year (i live near Ontario, Oregon *Weiser,Id*) , either there or Washougal
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    riddler9
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    by riddler9 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:04 pm

    The MMP site does not have updated maps/images that show the national track placement, so we will use photos from this link for perspective:
    http://millermotorsportspark.com/track-maps.html

    If you go to the very last photo (really a digital drawing), you can use this image to relate to the GE imagery and see the MMP property line. Use the grid on that map for reference.

    The national track is mostly inside section B2, but also crosses into B1 and A2.

    A1/2-B1/2 and A3/4-B3/4 are two separate road courses that are combined for national/world events.

    C2 and C3 are 2 separate kart tracks that can be run as a single track (guessing they do for some events)

    The empty square to the left of the kart track does not have a label - this is (maybe now was?) the super moto track. The last time I visually seen the track was almost 3 years ago, but the fact that it is not labeled makes me wonder if it still exists. I also do not recall that parking (east of the kart track) being that big so maybe they took it out to gain some room. If you look at the photos, it looks like they still have dirt next to the kart track so maybe the are using the kart course for sumo if they still run them. Feeling a little bummed - had hopes of trying this some day.

    The tracks in C4 are the off-road courses.

    Looking at the actual photos, it looks like they do indeed have a desert course so I will need to look into it.
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