starting problems with 2009 crf 450
  • Asicor
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    starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Asicor » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:03 am

    hello
    i have problems to start my 2009 crf 450. I replaced the gas filter remount everything, connected all wires,... but now the bike doesn't start anymore. Has always started very well after 2 kicks. Now I have been kicking for more than 20minutes, the ignition works, but it's like the gas doesn't come to the engine. Hard to say if the gas pump starts or not because i have no battery so it only starts the moment i kick. I haven't tried yet to start it downhill just engaging a gear. Have you ever had similar problems or any idea about what could be wrong ? thank you a lot for your answers.
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    JimDirt
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by JimDirt » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:01 pm

    Welcome to the site !! \:D/

    So your saying it started fine before and all you did was replace the fuel filter , and now nothing , correct ??
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
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    Weiser , Idaho
  • Asicor
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Asicor » Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:58 am

    Sorry Hello everybody I don't know if we have to introduce ourselves the first time we come to the forum...I am Isaac from switzerland, 26 years old riding (until last week) a working crf 450 R 8-[

    So yes the bike started good just replaced the filter and the O-rings (seals) which were given with the kit. I don't even know or know how to know if the pump is working or not...
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    JimDirt
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by JimDirt » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:27 pm

    Sorry Hello everybody I don't know if we have to introduce ourselves the first time we come to the forum...I am Isaac from switzerland, 26 years old riding (until last week) a working crf 450 R 8-[

    So yes the bike started good just replaced the filter and the O-rings (seals) which were given with the kit. I don't even know or know how to know if the pump is working or not...
    Sorry for the late reply :oops:

    The fuel pump runs when the engine is turned over/kick starting , and also once the engine is running , did you notice if the lights were blinking on the button on the bars ??

    You should be able to hear the fuel pump working when your kick starting it , so if you don't hear it , then I would say its a bad connection , as it was working when you took it apart , so I would say you did not get a plug connected all the way , or missed a plug in somewhere ......
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Asicor
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Asicor » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:55 am

    Sorry for my late answer too..

    So today i tried some things. Apparently the fuel pump is functional. there is electricity at the entry wires. we also tried to connect the pump direct to a 12V battery and increase the pressure which apparently needs to be quiet high; the pump works (makes that typical noise). Unfortunately still nothing.

    And about the light on the button bar, absolutely nothing. I kicked many many many....many times and nothing, no red light. I can't understand what i did wrong...

    I only disconnected the wires and the fuel pipe and the air box. I haven't touched anything else except the fuel pump which apparently works...
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    JimDirt
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by JimDirt » Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:18 pm

    Do you have any of the "special" tools required to test the fuel system ??

    If not the only advice i can give is to go over every single thing you touched , including any plugs that may have got messed with while removing the tank , etc , it has to be something you inadvertently unplugged and are not noticing or are overlooking that it is unplugged but looks plugged in or a ground wire that was not connected or bolted down , as it has to be a loose connection , or something is not grounded properly when you hooked everything back up , if you do not have all the special tools listed in the Service Manual , you will be flying blind trying to troubleshoot this , the only other alternative , would be take it to a Honda Dealer (as they would be the only ones with the correct testing tools) , and they will charge you Labor for tracing the issue out , which might get expensive as they probably charge around $80-$100 a hour for Labor , I have hte Service Manual iI can post pictures of , but it will do you no good unless you have the diagnostic tools that are required to test and troubleshoot the issue :cry:

    If you have the tools , i can guide you thru it , but without the tools , your better off going over every single connection within the area you were working , or unfortunately , contacting your dealer ....
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Back2-2
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Back2-2 » Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:32 pm

    Could there be blown fuse that controls the injection system ? I have never touched "R" fuel injected model but just throwing the thought out there.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
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    JimDirt
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by JimDirt » Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:24 pm

    Could there be blown fuse that controls the injection system ? I have never touched "R" fuel injected model but just throwing the thought out there.
    Neil , From what I am reading in the Factory Service Manual , there is no "fuse" that i can find , the closest thing i can find is a Failsafe setup that says

    The PGM-FI system is provided with a fail safe function to secure a minimum running capability even when there is trouble in the system , When any abnormality is detected by the self-diagnosis function , running capability is maintained by pre-programmed values in the simulated program map . When any abnormality is detected in the injector and/or CKP sensor , the fail-safe function stops the engine to protect it from damage

    That is about all i can really find to do with a fuse or even a reset breaker setup , and it does not really say anything about the bike not starting at all , it says basically if the bike starts and it finds a issue it shuts it down , but he is not getting any running at , and I found nothing but a crapload of sensors running/controlling the system and all sorts of specialty Honda electrical and line pressure "tools" to test the complete system , according to what i read , the light on the map button/kill switch is supposed to blink a error code (which is why i asked him if it was blinking or anything) , but if its not lighting up for him , the only recourse is to either buy the needed tools to test each sensor and the pump voltage and pressure , or go to the Honda Dealer whom "should" have the proper test equipment

    I could post pages of info from the Service Manual on the testing procedures , but it will do no good unless he has the test equipment required to go along with the directions ...that is the crappy thing about EFI bikes , it requires a whole new tool box just for that stuff , I don't mess with them enough to justify buying all the tools , unless at some point I end up buying a CRF450R/X .... , generally I work on early up to 08 at the newest for CRF's , unless its suspension stuff or lacing wheels or rebuilding engines or something , same goes for the other brands , the newest KTM i have messed with (suspension and other repairs) is a 2011 , so it had a carb (last year of carb KTM's) , so I am about as in the dark on the EFI stuff as you are , its kind of like working on modern cars , unless you have specialty and specific diagnostic meters and code readers , your just guessing , and from what i gathered in the Service Manual , there are about 15 "specialty" tools needed to diagnose and test just the fuel system
    2020 CRF450R
    2006 CRF450X
    Image
    Weiser , Idaho
  • Back2-2
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Back2-2 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:02 am

    Excellent info. as usual Jim. I have not touch a EFI 450 myself. Rarely does a non battery bike have a fuse so it was just a thought to throw out there.

    Agree with you 100% on the newer bikes and having the equipment. You can only trouble shoot so much and a lot of it will become "shoot from the hip" trouble shooting.

    Broken wire, bent or recessed pin in a connector, ground leads, some resistance checks that the manual might give - that's what I would be checking which I believe you have already suggested.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Aussiecrf230
    Posts: 1962
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Aussiecrf230 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:23 pm

    If it was a car I would say disconnect the battery for an hour or so to reset the ecu back to stock settings. But from reading these posts the bike doesn't have a battery.
    Strange no lights on dash either.
    Would have to think a plug is probably disconnected somewhere.

    Is there spark at the plug?
    Ray
    Australia

    CRF230F 2004
    C30F Power Up needle
    Mains 132
    Idle 45
    2 turns out
    Baffle out, Screens In

    It starts,it runs,it gets to where all CRFs can get to without the valve or valve plate dramas
  • Asicor
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Asicor » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:26 am

    hello guys and sorry for my very late reply, i've been realy busy those last month and even the bike stayed untuched for many months...apparently i discovered the problem...but not deep enough to know exactly where it's coming from.
    I believe i have no fuel pressure coming out of the fuel pump. when i connect the pump to a battery the pump works and produces that typical electrical noise. i have no idea why there is no pressure...
  • Back2-2
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Back2-2 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:54 am

    Sounds like you have done some good trouble shooting. I faintly recall there were so issues with the fuel pumps of the early EFI bikes.
    You sure you are electrically running it in the proper direction?
    If you are spinning it in the correct direction. Then not knowing what type of pump they use, centrifugal, diaphragm, vanes ect... it's hard to guess what is wrong inside. The inner pump issues that probably are not allowing pressure to be built and you might be able to do a pumpadectimy and see whats going on in there. ;)

    Seriously, be careful working on the pump if you go in for an investigation. A friend burned himself pretty severely working on a fuel pump and using electric supply to test it.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Asicor
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Asicor » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:02 am

    So it is possible that i find the origine of the problem.
    I noticed the ring number 38 on the picture was missing. Do you guys think this could make me loose fuel pressure ?
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  • Back2-2
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Back2-2 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:10 am

    Yes, I believe that you may have just found the problem. No seal = no pressure build up. Is there any remnants or is it completely missing? Seems odd that it would be gone.
    Neil
    Black Hills of SD
    Life without Motorcycles would just be boring, really boring
    Honda 450X. Yamaha Tracer GT900. HD Fat Boy. Triumph Bonneville. Yamaha Majesty 400. Yamaha Grizzly. Yamaha Wolverine. Yamaha TW200
  • Asicor
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    Re: starting problems with 2009 crf 450

    by Asicor » Wed Jan 23, 2019 9:24 am

    no the seal is completely missing I cross my fingers this was the problem !!! i have really enough...I just have to buy one...and that only exists by honda...10$ for a 8.6x1.9 seal !
    otherwise is everything else working. i have spark at the plug, tension at the pump when kicking, pump working,...only problem was the pressure and no red light at handelbar which could mean something bad from what I understood...

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