[Indywoods]

Just picked up a low hour 04 450. It needs valves so if I'm going to buy a head or replace the valves does it make sense to use x parts? I want it to be an open HS race bike . More GNCC like seems to be the trend lately. I own 2 strokes for the tight technical uglies. I'd like for it to make good easy to ride power and eliminate the stalling. I'm an old guy but A level. I'll probably do the rekluse my other bikes are set up with them.

What other mods? Suspension is a given. I'm looking for motor advice. Maybe an x CDI?

[JimDirt]

Welcome to the site !

There are lots of things you can do to make the bike a better woods bike

To get more "easy to ride power" delivery i would suggest a flywheel weight and/or even a steel clutch basket , this will give the engine a smoother power delivery , along with the Rekluse you mentioned , it will allow you to gear UP , so this will also increase smoothness , none of which will take away any power , just smooth it out

Also going UP on the gearing will smooth out the power delivery

I am not sure on the CDI since the wiring is completely different from the X to any R , since the X has a charging and lighting system , maybe PM Ken , the owner of this site and see if he has done any X CDI swaps on a R , other than that , maybe Tokyo Mods will have a Programmable Map module that will do what you want , to alter your ignition mapping to suit your needs

If your going to be strictly woods racing , maybe even look for 450X forks , then re-valve and re-spring them (the shocks are basically the same , so just a re-valve will be good enough for the shock) , the R fork tubes themselves are much stiffer than the X , and also different length (slightly), so they don't flex as much , making them feel harsher , as they are made for Moto , where strength is a concern not plushness , so no matter how much you re-valve them compared to the X tubes , the suspension will always be stiffer/harsher

To add to the suspension softness , when installing a skid plate , use a rubber buffer of some sort (old inner tube , etc) to go between the skid plate and the frame , it will do a few things , it will soften the engine vibration going thru the frame by taking away the rigidity added by using a skid plate , it will cut down on vibration noise from the metal to metal contact (if your using a metal skid plate), and it will allow the frame to flex a little more so the bike will feel plusher , due to the skid plate not being in direct contact with the frame which would cause the frame cradle to be stiffer (make sense ?)

Anyway , hope that helps some or at least gave you some other things to consider

[Indywoods]

Thanks for the reply. I think this will be a fun project. I've been on ktms for 10 years. I'm amazed at the products out there for the Hondas. I think I'll make one change at a time a log my progress/results. Just thought with the major motor work now is the time to decide between x and r parts.

When you say gear it up you mean more teeth on the front or less on the rear? For some reason I thought most feared them down smaller counter or larger rear? I rode an 06 a few years ago that friend tried to convert to a woods bike. I don't know what all he did but I did have a Rekluse on it. All I remember was I would still stall and was a bear to restart.

I'm sure I can do better with mine. Does anyone make a durable plastic skid plate for the 04?

[JimDirt]

Yes Larger Front AND/OR Smaller Rear , the amount depends on what type of terrain your riding , of course tight single track you would want to gear down (usually Larger rear) , i run (i swap back and forth depending) between a 13/50 to 13/52 combo , and 13/48/49 -13/50 for the MX track , the stalling issue would most likely be caused by the flywheel being too light for the type of riding , the 02 for example( what i have) has the lightest flywheel from 02-08 , so it is more prone to stalling than the later years , i used a 13 oz weight , which gave me a total of 35 oz , which is the most you can have (due to space limitations) , unless you really goof up , its pretty hard to stall my 02

You could add to the aid by going with a steel clutch basket which will also give more rotating mass than a aluminum clutch basket , to aid in stalling protection , but if you use a Rekluse , then it will do basically the same thing as a flywheel weight , just triple the cost , so that part is up to you , i personally do not like them and prefer to use the stock clutch , and can go anywhere anyone with a Auto Clutch can go , just about as easily without stalling

As far as a skid plate goes , its easier to find and you have more options going with a aluminum one , unless you went all out and got a Carbon Fiber one , but if you ride in anything rocky , the Aluminum will outlast the others , but like i mentioned , use a rubber buffer between the frame and skid plate , personally i would do this with any skid plate no matter what it was made of , this way the frame can flex as its made to do from the factory

If its hard to kick over , as in it does not want to start back up when/if stalled or shut down , when the engine is hot/warmed up ,then you need to use the Hot Start Lever and NO THROTTLE when starting a warm/hot 4 stroke , if it does not start easily then , then i would look at incorrect jetting for the altitude/temperature , or intake valves tightening up , my bike will start within 1-4 kicks just about every time under any circumstances

[Indywoods]

Thanks for the reply. I'll get the thing running as it should and go from there.

I know I'll need a tough skid plate. Looks like it will be aluminum.

Now, the best/cheapest valve fix. I know it'll be stainless. I'm back and forth over a complete new head or parts and a local shop. Being an Indycar city we have lots of really high quality shops/people who can do this work in their sleep. $69 to cut the seats. less than 100 hrs on bike so I'm hoping I wont need guides.

[JimDirt]

With that low of hours i doubt it ,the shop should be able to tell you if the guides are worn upon inspection , just make sure the shop is experienced in modern 4 strokes , normal "automotive" machine shops usually don't have a clue how to do bike valves properly , if they cut the seat too deep they just made a paperweight out of your head , since when the seat is cut , it determines the height of the stem , which determines the size of the shim , which means if they cut too deep , there will not be a shim size to fit the space , or lack of space in this case , and the head becomes junk , so make sure they have done 4 stroke heads and are reputable in doing so , the price you mentioned is about what i paid for mine to be cut , but again , all they did was cut the seats , no guides or anything , and i know the guy , so he treated me good on what he did for the price (this was at a Automotive machine shop , but they do all the motorcycle shops machine work in the area)

And yes Stainless is the way to go , i put 1mm larger Stainless in my bike in 06 , the same size as the TRX450 , along with a HotCams Stage 1 *bottom to mid power only cam* , to make the engine breath better ,(my bike was a few months old when i replaced them) , i have not had to adjust them yet , its been 9 years of just riding with no valve issues (Your results may vary)

Ken sells complete , stock , to , tricked out heads , here , check with him on what your looking to achieve and see what he can offer you , he can also redo your head , in any configuration from stock to mod , if the head is not toast

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/258

[Indywoods]

I've had the bike together for a couple weeks now without much time to ride. I slapped a new 08 head with ss valves on, new OEM piston , rings, timing chain (why not), manual timing chain adjuster , and a heavy flywheel weight. This bike has turned out to be a great woods ride. It's steers very light. The suspension works very well for my speed/ability in the woods. It's an absolute tractor. I've had the occasional stall but it's usually just rider error. This thing starts first kick almost every time. When hot and stalled maybe 2-3.

I took it to its first race which contrary to reports the 7 mile loop got 2+ inches of rain the night before. I did two laps in 2 hours it was that bad. So not a test for what I wanted the bike for bit it still did very well. I saw several bikes seized up.

I'm hoping for a dry track this coming weekend. This should be more GNCC style open and fast. We will see

[JimDirt]

Sweet , glad to hear its working for you !!!

And yea , you can stall every once in a while , even with the flywheel weight , i even hear guys stalling with Rekluse clutches , so it can happen , but if it fires right back up then your good to go , it means you wont get worn out kicking it after a stall so your less fatigued riding afterwards

I re-valved my 04 R a lot like i did my 450X and it just soaks up everything , i sprung it heavy and valved it light and you can just hit stuff without worry , and as i found last weekend , it still works great on the MX track , in fact i did not even adjust the clickers from trail riding to the track , and it was still good , i might go a few clicks stiffer for the track but only a few clicks at most

I like riding it as much as i like my 450X , so that is saying a lot for how the suspension is working now

If you re-valve you will get less deflection , so for GNCC type of racing , it will be even better than it is now