Another valve question.

[AgentSmith]

The X has the same punch mark as does the R...you should be able to see it.

The TRX are good valves. You will want to change the springs, retainers, seals and cotters while you are in there.

The TRX will NOT just fit into the X head. The seats will need to be cut to fit the larger TRX valves. They are 36mm whereas the X valves are 35mm. It can be done, but hopefully the shop knows what they are doing.

If you want valves that will just "drop in", CRF'sONLY sells a Kibblewhite stainless intake only kit for $ 187.10.

The seats will always need to be recut to remove surface irregularities and true them up to the guide.
_________________
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Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

[ariel]

I dont see the Kibblewhite intake valve/spring kit on the site do I have to speacial request just an intake kit? Do the vavles from K.W. work with OEM springs retainers seals and cotters.

[AgentSmith]

You'll need the intake kit here:

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/138_144/products_id/2903

and 2 valve stem seals here:

http://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/138_144/products_id/2896
_________________
"Make a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day.
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

[dobent4@yahoo.com]

Just because most guys get a lot more longevity out of their head Ariel doesnt mean that you don't need some work now, don't mis-understand that. You may have inadvertantly ingested some foreign substance at some point, who knows?
Those marks are on your ignition flywheel, no doubt about it, and it's worth taking the time to find them. Make sure your spark plug is out, and go slow.
You are looking where AS has the picture of the access hole, right above your shifter at the top area of the left crankcase cover, correct ? The small access plug that requires an allen wrench? Opposite the crankcase access hole, on the other side of the engine, but higher ?
You need to be able to do this exactly right no matter what route you go.
The thing to do is instead of restoring or changing anything make darn sure you have this TDC thing down cold. The second ignition timing mark, the cams to the rear, the cam sprocket marks, then lastly the play in the exhaust tappet, THEN measure and see what you have.
Nobody, by the way , has been less than very pleasantly suprised with the work AS has done with the TRX intake valves, but for sure if you want to do that just let him do it and be done with it.
Hey, if you have to put some non-mettalic one-piece thing in the plug hole and line up all your marks, then shake the tappets, just know you are at compression TDC and see where you are.
THEN shim it to spec and go riding. If it starts fading on you in a few hours, ie;hard to start (and you know your pilot jet is spotless) just ship the head to AS and stop the bleeding. Doug
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[ariel]

Hey thanks for all the help. Got my bike running fine and I am going to have to get in and find the punch mar4ks on the flywheel. Looks like I am going to order the kibble white intake valve kit. Will I need guides as well as seals for them. Or can I reuse the guides.
Also what size valve spring compressor will I need. I am going to pull them out and install them myself I found someone to lap my seats for me in the area so I can take the head and valves to them for that.
I am going to do the top end while I am in there since it has been long enough now. I was going to go with the Wiesco piston & ring kit that comes with the cometec gasket kit. Is this good stuff should I look anywhere else. On this topic how much duribility would I loose by going with a 12.5-1 commpresion over the stock 12.0-1 stock compression piston. Would you still be ok with 93 octane pump gass.
Agent S. you mentioned the cam chain and replacing it. How hard are these to change. Is there a how to on this anywhere.

[dobent4@yahoo.com]

The timing chainis not a tough job, but anytime doing something for the first time at least that is as big a deal as this is you should be using a shop manual, or a Clymers manual, either which will show you whatever you need to do.
Plus, you shouldnt be taking anything else further apart until you have this TDC thing doen cold, and if you're still trying to find marks you are miles away from being ready for any of this.
Come on. AS has that link that has pictures of the ignition timing marks (they are NOT punch marks). If you line up the bottom via the ignition timing marks you dont need to be touching the crank sidepunch marks anyway.
You should note in the shop manual exactly how it says the seats need to be cut, and exactly how to measure the valve guides to find out if they are serviceable. "Feels okay " is wrong.
This way when you approach the shop ask them how they will do the work, and if they don't reflect what your manual says, then run because you're about to get hosed.
The mild increase in compression wont hurt a thing , 93 octane will be fine, there will be no real difference in service life.
Again, you need to dig into the TDC thing and quit letting it kick your rear end. Take the picstures from the link with you, one of these sposts, all of these posts, whatever, and get it mastered before you go pulling and re-installing top ends.
Once done, There is an awesome "sticky" on a 450R, largely the same that 124 did on a top end freshen up, check it out. Doug
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[ariel]

Ok guys so I am going to tackle my top end. I feel better about the Whole TDC thing and have ordered all the parts that I think I need. Also I got the clymer manuel. There is a good shop over the hill in San jose who I feel confident in to help me get my valve seats correct and also check my valve guides. Is it an automatic must replace with the Kibblewhite intake vaves. Are these valves a different stem diameter than the stock TI ones? The shop sells KW valves so I am sure they can get me guides and replace them if I need to.
Another question is how to deglaze and prepare the cyclinder for the new piston. Do I need to have it honed. I read somewhere in here that scotch bright and a good wash might be all I need. I saw a post about the break in procedure from Agent and it looked like a three step process. The part that interested me was agent saying dont ride like a :) at the end of the process. Should I ride hard on the first 15 minute cycle right away or only on the last cycle. Or just stop riding like a :) in general HAHA
Thanks again to Agent and Dobent for answering all my questions. I really apriciate the help you guys and this website has to offer. It would be really tough to find this much help and info without it.

[dobent4@yahoo.com]

AS's break-in instructions are just fine.
Seriously, to much gets made of it in my view, it's not like engines coast to coast are all blowing smoke from bad break-ins.
If the top end is done right what's the difference between a brand new bike and a re-build ? None.
So why isn't there constant hand wringing because of a break-in problem with new bikes ?
I get a kick out of post re-build posts where there's some major problem and somebody always brings up "how'd you break it in ?"as if this was a 1930 Excelsior or something.
A couple three heat cycles, varying rpm,no idling, no red line, but everything in between rpm wise, cool down to "room temp" in between cycles and you're ready to roll.
Stem size is not a concern.
I'm prejudiced but Ariel, consider just letting AS do the job. They are GOOD.
For my money I'd have AS do the TRX intakes, change out the exhaust springs, seals and whatever else they suggest and save a bundle for a first rate job with zero perceptible performance difference than new.
However, KibbleWhite is a great company who makes top shelf parts, your call.
If you've got loyalty to that shop though I understand, just check them on the seat cutting, the guide measurements, etc.
Read this start to finish, it's simply outstanding from another one of our crackerjack motor guys, 124:
http://www.crfsonly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13510&highlight=url
Note Step 8.
You're getting this down, let us know how things go for you. Doug
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[ariel]

Sounds good Thats what I did for break in last time when I did the little bike and it worked fine. I know agent and those guys are probably great and it would be easy and the work would be worth it. However working on and gaining a greater undestanding of my equipment is part of this sport for me so I want to do as much as I can within reason. I know that I need someone with the tools and the know how to lap the valves and make sure the new ones are seated correctly. I will also have the valve guides measured and replaced if nessasary.

[ariel]

The piston replacement sticky looks helpfull. I did not see anything about preping the cylinder other than checking the ring gaps. Do I just leave the cylinder the way it is as long as it looks good. Or do I need to hit it with sccotch bright and then clean it with soapy water.